Joka10
Soulsand
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2012
I joined in Dragongarde, and, for almost all of that map, noone in our town ever really had much of a reason to submit a PE. We had a couple exploiters banned for really major infractions, but that was about it. So, last map, I never really had that much experience with the discipline system. I read some threads about how discipline was too light compared to Sanctum, where there weren't that many rulebreakers (according to the OPs) because the banhammer was so swift. That was all, though. This map has been much different, though.
I've submitted several PEs, more than I feel I should have/should have needed to this map. With the changes in how towns get regions and how they can be built, pillars have been a much bigger issue, and grief as well. The town I joined last map was already regioned by the time I was accepted in. I helped build this one from the start.
So, the first issue I submitted a PE about this map was related to an iron 'vault' I made. It was essentially an LWC inside of a small chamber made of iron blocks. Iron is pretty common, and it was moved off of the rare blocks list near the end of last map. I had quite a bit, so I made that chamber. This was before our town had regions. So, a veteran player (keeping this anonymous) came into our town. He was a higher level than us, and there weren't many of us at all there, so we all died :/ In the time between dying and getting back to town, the player had left, but not before completely destroying the vault except for the LWC. I submitted a PE, and a mod arrived promptly. The response was "User has been dealt with". Within ten seconds of that message, the same player walked into our town and killed us again. He was a veteran, and clearly all he got from that was a warning or maybe a fine.
The next issue I submitted a PE about was when someone spilled lava on top of my house. We got the "User has been dealt with" thing again, but, as far as I know, all that happened was a fine or a warning. That one was a little more agreeable. I never found out who did that, but there had been some PvP right around when the lava got spilled, and it might have been a newer player, so the punishment wasn't that strict.
These incidents were in a span of about a week, week and a half. I was a bit upset about the vault one, but I assumed it was his first offense or something, and didn't let it bother me.
Now, the first thing we did upon settling in the area where the town would be built was place down a pillar that said "Mineris Town Center". For whatever reason, nearly everyone built on the south side of that pillar, just barely within where hamlet regions would reach. It was a dumb choice on behalf of many, and it made it so that our walls extended very close to the region border when we finally got regions. In one spot, they even stuck out a bit. We had a LOT of people pillaring up over the wall, and very few actually removed the pillars. Various people in town submitted PEs over a period of time, and got either the "User has been dealt with" thing where nothing visible happens, didn't get a response at all, or the pillar was removed by someone else in town who wasn't thinking and nothing could be done.
Eventually, we improved upon our walls by making them taller, slightly better looking, and not hugging the region as much. We couldn't pull it back far enough, though, because of houses, and people who pillared up high enough could get inside still. To this day we are still getting pillars. The first time I submitted a PE after we got the new walls, the response was "User has been dealt with" and the offending users were shocked by the staff. The next couple times I PEd, people in town pulled down the pillars before staff got there. Yesterday, a PE of mine got looked at for a massive pillar on our southwest side. "Users dealt with/fined".
Other people in town had been submitting PEs about the pillars before that, and had gotten responses like that. Yeah, I guess that's okay if it's a different person from a different group, maybe new, or a first time offender. However, it's been pretty much the same people doing this all map. They have plenty of offenses outside of what they've been doing at our town. They were offenders last map, too. Some of them I see submitting a mute appeal almost weekly, and many have submitted ban appeals too. They are getting the same punishment every time they do this. As long as they have money and aren't on low health when they get shocked, there is no reason for them to stop. Punishments are supposed to stack based on the number of offenses. I know pillaring without removing the blocks isn't really that bad in the great scheme of things, but without putting up a roof, which is illegal, we can't trust our walls at all. It's our fault partially for building too close to the border, but our mistake shouldn't be a reason for people to get away with breaking rules. They are getting away with it. A fine is not discipline in a videogame, and nor is dying (it doesn't even usually happen) from a lightning bolt. A warning is definitely not discipline. It works for the first offense, but beyond that... Some of these players have played since Zeal. There's no excuse for it.
Anyway, I've been biting my tongue about it till today. Today, those same users who have been getting by with breaking the rules all map mined a tunnel down to our undercity, below where creepers don't do damage. They took a creeper down the tunnel and blew their way in. They then proceeded to mass-grief our undercity with creepers, destroying much of the floor, as well as damaging our farms and many users chests. They blew open the chamber that encases the lift to the town hall. They took the lift up to the town hall. They took a lot of stuff from it.
Stealing is legal, yes. The whole 'using creepers to get into regioned areas' thing is debated, and I'm not really sure what its legality is. However, I am sure that mass-grief of our undercity by abusing a game mechanic is not legal. For those of you who don't know, creeper damage does not regen like TNT does. If players are not allowed to break blocks inside of regioned areas, or grief around them, it makes no sense whatsoever that this should be legal.
Anyway, apparently it was illegal, because we did get an admin response. However, all that was... was a rollback of the area. That's helpful, yeah, but the users got "dealt with" in the same way they were above, according to my townies.
There are hundreds of players on this server who play by the rules. Some have played since Zeal, maybe Sanctum, and have never gotten in trouble in any way. They shouldn't have to endure veteran users exploiting the apparent laxness of discipline to torment them. It's not right that all these users get are fines and electrocutions.
We've also submitted videos of one of them block-jumping (placing/breaking blocks in regioned areas, and abusing the lag between the time of their modification and their regeneration to get to areas they aren't supposed to). In the video, it was quite clear what the user was doing. I don't honestly know what the exact response was. I asked the guy who submitted the PM to the administration a few days ago what the response was, but I think he was AFK. All I know is that today, during the grief of our undercity, that player was there blowing up creepers with the rest of them, no worse for wear.
Our allied towns have also complained about the lack of discipline. I don't monitor what happens with them nearly as much as what happens with my own town, so I don't have examples, but I have noticed their complaints.
I can't imagine that it is just us who are bothered by it. Maybe others don't have such a problem with it because they organized the construction of their towns better, and it isn't worth the raiders' time to pillar up or dig down to get in. However, what I have listed above is the truth. I'm a bit angry right now, and that may have shown in places, but I have still stated the truth.
Collectively as a town, we have submitted a lot of PEs in the short lifespan of this map, and the staff are probably a bit annoyed and don't want to deal with it. I understand that, but we are still submitting them because people keep breaking the rules. It's the same people, over and over. We won't stop PEing if they're going to keep doing it, and as long as they aren't punished more harshly, they're clearly going to keep doing it. So do yourselves a favor, and us, and all the others they may do this to, and just take discipline a step further.
A final note: Everything I have listed above except possibly the creeper thing is confirmed to be illegal. Pillaring without removing is griefing, and breaking iron blocks is griefing. Pouring lava on houses is griefing. Blockjumping is exploiting. A nice, consolidated post about creeper grief is found http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/creeper-damage-off-in-towns.25349/#post-228293 so I don't need to explain it all.[DOUBLEPOST=1349581371,1349563519][/DOUBLEPOST]Thanks for the cool ratings, but I would appreciate responses too...
I've submitted several PEs, more than I feel I should have/should have needed to this map. With the changes in how towns get regions and how they can be built, pillars have been a much bigger issue, and grief as well. The town I joined last map was already regioned by the time I was accepted in. I helped build this one from the start.
So, the first issue I submitted a PE about this map was related to an iron 'vault' I made. It was essentially an LWC inside of a small chamber made of iron blocks. Iron is pretty common, and it was moved off of the rare blocks list near the end of last map. I had quite a bit, so I made that chamber. This was before our town had regions. So, a veteran player (keeping this anonymous) came into our town. He was a higher level than us, and there weren't many of us at all there, so we all died :/ In the time between dying and getting back to town, the player had left, but not before completely destroying the vault except for the LWC. I submitted a PE, and a mod arrived promptly. The response was "User has been dealt with". Within ten seconds of that message, the same player walked into our town and killed us again. He was a veteran, and clearly all he got from that was a warning or maybe a fine.
The next issue I submitted a PE about was when someone spilled lava on top of my house. We got the "User has been dealt with" thing again, but, as far as I know, all that happened was a fine or a warning. That one was a little more agreeable. I never found out who did that, but there had been some PvP right around when the lava got spilled, and it might have been a newer player, so the punishment wasn't that strict.
These incidents were in a span of about a week, week and a half. I was a bit upset about the vault one, but I assumed it was his first offense or something, and didn't let it bother me.
Now, the first thing we did upon settling in the area where the town would be built was place down a pillar that said "Mineris Town Center". For whatever reason, nearly everyone built on the south side of that pillar, just barely within where hamlet regions would reach. It was a dumb choice on behalf of many, and it made it so that our walls extended very close to the region border when we finally got regions. In one spot, they even stuck out a bit. We had a LOT of people pillaring up over the wall, and very few actually removed the pillars. Various people in town submitted PEs over a period of time, and got either the "User has been dealt with" thing where nothing visible happens, didn't get a response at all, or the pillar was removed by someone else in town who wasn't thinking and nothing could be done.
Eventually, we improved upon our walls by making them taller, slightly better looking, and not hugging the region as much. We couldn't pull it back far enough, though, because of houses, and people who pillared up high enough could get inside still. To this day we are still getting pillars. The first time I submitted a PE after we got the new walls, the response was "User has been dealt with" and the offending users were shocked by the staff. The next couple times I PEd, people in town pulled down the pillars before staff got there. Yesterday, a PE of mine got looked at for a massive pillar on our southwest side. "Users dealt with/fined".
Other people in town had been submitting PEs about the pillars before that, and had gotten responses like that. Yeah, I guess that's okay if it's a different person from a different group, maybe new, or a first time offender. However, it's been pretty much the same people doing this all map. They have plenty of offenses outside of what they've been doing at our town. They were offenders last map, too. Some of them I see submitting a mute appeal almost weekly, and many have submitted ban appeals too. They are getting the same punishment every time they do this. As long as they have money and aren't on low health when they get shocked, there is no reason for them to stop. Punishments are supposed to stack based on the number of offenses. I know pillaring without removing the blocks isn't really that bad in the great scheme of things, but without putting up a roof, which is illegal, we can't trust our walls at all. It's our fault partially for building too close to the border, but our mistake shouldn't be a reason for people to get away with breaking rules. They are getting away with it. A fine is not discipline in a videogame, and nor is dying (it doesn't even usually happen) from a lightning bolt. A warning is definitely not discipline. It works for the first offense, but beyond that... Some of these players have played since Zeal. There's no excuse for it.
Anyway, I've been biting my tongue about it till today. Today, those same users who have been getting by with breaking the rules all map mined a tunnel down to our undercity, below where creepers don't do damage. They took a creeper down the tunnel and blew their way in. They then proceeded to mass-grief our undercity with creepers, destroying much of the floor, as well as damaging our farms and many users chests. They blew open the chamber that encases the lift to the town hall. They took the lift up to the town hall. They took a lot of stuff from it.
Stealing is legal, yes. The whole 'using creepers to get into regioned areas' thing is debated, and I'm not really sure what its legality is. However, I am sure that mass-grief of our undercity by abusing a game mechanic is not legal. For those of you who don't know, creeper damage does not regen like TNT does. If players are not allowed to break blocks inside of regioned areas, or grief around them, it makes no sense whatsoever that this should be legal.
Anyway, apparently it was illegal, because we did get an admin response. However, all that was... was a rollback of the area. That's helpful, yeah, but the users got "dealt with" in the same way they were above, according to my townies.
There are hundreds of players on this server who play by the rules. Some have played since Zeal, maybe Sanctum, and have never gotten in trouble in any way. They shouldn't have to endure veteran users exploiting the apparent laxness of discipline to torment them. It's not right that all these users get are fines and electrocutions.
We've also submitted videos of one of them block-jumping (placing/breaking blocks in regioned areas, and abusing the lag between the time of their modification and their regeneration to get to areas they aren't supposed to). In the video, it was quite clear what the user was doing. I don't honestly know what the exact response was. I asked the guy who submitted the PM to the administration a few days ago what the response was, but I think he was AFK. All I know is that today, during the grief of our undercity, that player was there blowing up creepers with the rest of them, no worse for wear.
Our allied towns have also complained about the lack of discipline. I don't monitor what happens with them nearly as much as what happens with my own town, so I don't have examples, but I have noticed their complaints.
I can't imagine that it is just us who are bothered by it. Maybe others don't have such a problem with it because they organized the construction of their towns better, and it isn't worth the raiders' time to pillar up or dig down to get in. However, what I have listed above is the truth. I'm a bit angry right now, and that may have shown in places, but I have still stated the truth.
Collectively as a town, we have submitted a lot of PEs in the short lifespan of this map, and the staff are probably a bit annoyed and don't want to deal with it. I understand that, but we are still submitting them because people keep breaking the rules. It's the same people, over and over. We won't stop PEing if they're going to keep doing it, and as long as they aren't punished more harshly, they're clearly going to keep doing it. So do yourselves a favor, and us, and all the others they may do this to, and just take discipline a step further.
A final note: Everything I have listed above except possibly the creeper thing is confirmed to be illegal. Pillaring without removing is griefing, and breaking iron blocks is griefing. Pouring lava on houses is griefing. Blockjumping is exploiting. A nice, consolidated post about creeper grief is found http://www.herocraftonline.com/main/threads/creeper-damage-off-in-towns.25349/#post-228293 so I don't need to explain it all.[DOUBLEPOST=1349581371,1349563519][/DOUBLEPOST]Thanks for the cool ratings, but I would appreciate responses too...
people dont like wasting tons of coin for stupid things like 1x1 pillars 
