Suggestion Disciple Idea!

[_Maxo]

Hi

Just thought of a cool idea that would help out disciples a bit... keep in mind that Disciple used to be called Monk, which i like 10x better than disciple. Due to the recent nerfs to disciple they have (IMO) went from one of the best classes to one of the "less" good classes. This is because of the nerfs to self healing and their autoattack damage was cut down alot. Not to mention their only real viable weapon is a blaze rod which isn't cheap. (65 damage at level 60) The current level 60 skill is good for sure... but not really "OMFG i just mastered my class after killing 2435234 slimes!" material. People don't generally look forward to a wizard replenish + energize with a 3 second warmup and 3 minute cd, but it is useful and I like the spell. I just think instead of having a 15 level gap inbetween chakra/balance and flyingkick move Meditate down to level 40. Since they have a very tough time staying durable during melee fights I think this could help slightly as a new level 60 spell

Safeguard = For the next 7 seconds your autoattacks heal you for 40% of the damage dealt.
not 100% on the numbers but sounds reasonable I guess tell me what you think mk bye.

 

[Teerian]

A neat idea, but something I've slowly noticed since mastering disciple is we aren't really as valuable to groups as I feel we should be. We only have two group skills: chakra and balance. Chakra is great. No complaints there. Balance, however, is not. It is extremely situational, often causing more harm than good to the entire party. Plus it's difficult to use effectively due to the lack of a HP bars display for group members. With just these two skills, we don't hold even a fraction of the value that a cleric does for groups.

Could we perhaps trade balance for some other type of group ability? Maybe a group buff that increases everyone's armor or gives a slight shielding effect for a duration similar to a cleric's might skill.

I think something like safeguard would be a great skill to assist with disciple survival (or the recently mentioned toughness idea/some kind of combination of the two), but that only really benefits the disciple him/herself, not so much the team he should be helping to stay alive.

Edit: Also, I don't know about other disciples, but I would be willing to trade the Reborn skill for one of the above mentioned ideas. Reborn is very unreliable. I can count on one hand the times I've had it go off since I mastered the class. Not a single one of those actually made a difference in the situation I was in, either. I'm sure it can be useful in extremely rare occasions when lucky, but not often enough for me to want to keep it in favor of more group support or self endurance.

 

[macura]

If there were a skill like this it would most likely go to DKs. DKs heal themselves by doing damage to others, desciples just heal themselves.

 

[_Maxo]

If there were a skill like this it would most likely go to DKs. DKs heal themselves by doing damage to others, desciples just heal themselves.

Lee Sin = Blind monk = Disciple = Monk (Zeal)
Helps disciple become more durable because they are really squishy and have no armor... Dk's already have a heal and enough survivability.
Just thought this would help balance them out considering their level 60 isn't too exciting like most classes. Other strong melee classes hit super hard against a disciple and this would kinda help.

 

[macura]

Lee Sin = Blind monk = Disciple = Monk (Zeal)
Helps disciple become more durable because they are really squishy and have no armor... Dk's already have a heal and enough survivability.
Just thought this would help balance them out considering their level 60 isn't too exciting like most classes. Other strong melee classes hit super hard against a disciple and this would kinda help.

I am not saying that DK's should have this or that desciples need changes, i was simply saying that it does not fit the class.

 

[OysterbOy]

honestly i think monks need a dmg boost
and a group skill that will help the whole group not "balance" the hp,
i think monks should have a skill like the bards war song but boost everyone's defense by 25%
and this might be me over thinking it but i think forcepush should be an aoe

 

[themeoff]

I like this idea personally. With the 40% heal it would help sustain the disciple for fights as well as allow for them to better defend the weaker classes by using balance with more HP. And since we max at 60 or so they heal is minimal of about 25 per hit

 

[northeaster345]

Balance, however, is not. It is extremely situational, often causing more harm than good to the entire party. Plus it's difficult to use effectively due to the lack of a HP bars display for group members. With just these two skills, we don't hold even a fraction of the value that a cleric does for groups.

People are doing balance wrong.
Say you're in a group of 5, someone's getting focused and has taken 600 dmg and is about to die.
You balance and then chakra, so that instead of healing 110 damage, it now healed that person 590 damage, at the cost of 10 damage to everyone else, except the disc who only healed 73 so he took 47 damage.
This only gets better as you scale up the size of the party, and improves the efficacy of group heals.

It's by percentage, so my numbers would be off if they have different amounts of health and you overheal on certain party members, but you get the point.

Note:
I'm not sure if balance has a range, because if it doesn't you could get a group of 9 friends who aren't with you, and then balance basically full heals you.

 

[Teerian]

As I said, balance is extremely situational. Everything you posted I already know. Even in those rare cases where it actually has potential to be useful, it's extremely difficult to use effectively unless your group is on some form of voice comms and communicating very fast and in a coordinated manner, or you're really good at lucky guesses. I may enjoy balance when the client Kainzo is wanting to add is completed, but as of now, I have very little use for it.

Getting back to what Macura said about a heal-off-melee skill not fitting disciples, I fail to see that. There are plenty of ways to make it fit. It's all in the wording and way of thinking. Sure, if you call it a 'life drain' people will think "...what's that have to do with discs? That's dark magic." Give it a skill description along the lines of "Disciple feels empowered by successful melee attacks, renewing their resolve and granting X health per attack for X secs." and give it a name like Zeal, Fanaticism, Frenzy, Tenacity, etc. It will fit just fine.

 

[Kwong050]

Lee Sin = Blind monk = Disciple = Monk (Zeal) .

I was about to say...

 

[TheMrLief]

honestly i think monks need a dmg boost
and a group skill that will help the whole group not "balance" the hp,
i think monks should have a skill like the bards war song but boost everyone's defense by 25%
and this might be me over thinking it but i think forcepush should be an aoe

It's called conviction and they have Iron Fist which is a less powerful AoE knock back.

I don't think Disciple's need anymore skills just maybe some of the mana/stamina costs of their current skills being adjusted.

 

[arcanegrove]

People are doing balance wrong.
Say you're in a group of 5, someone's getting focused and has taken 600 dmg and is about to die.
You balance and then chakra, so that instead of healing 110 damage, it now healed that person 590 damage, at the cost of 10 damage to everyone else, except the disc who only healed 73 so he took 47 damage.
This only gets better as you scale up the size of the party, and improves the efficacy of group heals.

It's by percentage, so my numbers would be off if they have different amounts of health and you overheal on certain party members, but you get the point.

Note:
I'm not sure if balance has a range, because if it doesn't you could get a group of 9 friends who aren't with you, and then balance basically full heals you.

Balance has a VERY low range. I think like 5-7 blocks? Almost have to hug the party, which is insanly hard with 5+ people.

 

[Kainzo]

Balance has a VERY low range. I think like 5-7 blocks? Almost have to hug the party, which is insanly hard with 5+ people.

The range on balance should be 10-15 ....

Balance:
use-text: '%hero% used %skill%!'
maxrange: 20
cooldown: 60000

andrew2060 I'll confirm with you in private that the src is correct - though I dont see how this would only be 5-6 unless we're squaring or doing some of the math wrong.

 

[Jaw895]

What about a skill that played off the silence passive no violent side of monk every 600 seconds they release built up rage and did recover from attacks based on their damage output. A heal from melee damage they deal. Call it a final release. Or rage

 

[alexhoff1]

Safeguard = For the next 7 seconds your autoattacks heal you for 40% of the damage dealt.
not 100% on the numbers but sounds reasonable I guess tell me what you think mk bye.

Moving skills around, sure, completely fine with that.

However I think the numbers on this, are just.. a bit off
Say a no-armor target, you deal 65 damage per hit, (thus healing 25 rounding down) damage per hit.
Including damage from flyingkick, ironfist, etc..
Just hitting your basic, 15x in that 7 seconds, which is easily obtainable under most circumstances if you could get this off, would just heal you for over 300 health.
Assuming the target isn't already dead, well, they will be and you will be up 300 more hp, which is 300 more they need to deal which is 2 fireballs or 2-3 ninja hits (depending on armor worn by disc) or like 7-8 dragoon hits (granted they are in armor so the hp would be less, but that is not really the point I'm trying to make).

Rather than the current numbers in order to make your suggestion more appealing
I would suggest a 1/4 ratio, or 25% leach for under 300 hp if a large ammount of hits are dealt.
OR
I would suggest that you could not cast other skills well this was active, which would make it A. great for mob farming and B. good for a frontal assault on someone without skill spam.
Also in addition to the second suggestion, the target should at a minimum not be silenced prior to casting this. (to play it more fairly against squishy skill-based classes)

overall I like the idea as long as it doesn't make it so the damage per second is higher, and that it can be countered.

Also, this should not be repeatable in short fights. 25 second CD perhaps?

 

[Jaw895]

In the same sense hhow often are they carrying a blaze rod in all honesty

 

[alexhoff1]

I haven't fought an armed disciple without a blazerod in days.
and unarmed disciples are litterally the new gy runner class o.o

 

[Jaw895]

Id play disciple if its weapon wasnt blaze rod lol i think its about most expensive class reliant weapon. I want to use my fists

 

[Teerian]

I agree that such a skill would need a long cool down. The only way it should be used more than once per fight is if the fight extends beyond a full minute. This should be a kind of one-chance skill. Use it correctly and you have a chance of turning a losing fight around. Use it incorrectly and you've lost your only opportunity.

 

[Keache]

You guys have to keep in mind that with server lag, the Disciple is hardly at any capacity of its full potential. Once Vanilla comes out I hope that should be remedied, but lag aside I don't think Disciple needs any buffs. I know that I can hold my own against pretty much anything should I manage myself well and play my strengths. As far as team contribution, Chakra is an instant, decently powerful aoe heal that's also pretty spammable; that's a great boon. You're also the group's bodyguard; people have a hard time getting away from you and to you. On a large scale it can become difficult since you can't forcepush everyone at once, but ironfist can be sufficient in disorienting a group of people. The only issue I see currently with the class is that Balance seems to have a really short range... Otherwise, yeah. With the heals we have currently if you don't get locked down then you can heal up to near full pretty quickly. With meditate, your durability is increased tremendously. I can't say as to whether or not it deserves the level 60 spot, but it is insanely helpful. Do we need a new ability? I don't know. Personally I don't think anything really needs to be changed, but if anything were to be added, I'd love an ability called forcewave works like cleave but it affects all of them with forcepush. Just that kind of fun utility that further adds to the theme of Disciple.