Suggestion Different Weapon Types

[malikdanab]

One of the more annoying things in terms of lore, variety, and balance is how all melee attacks work the same. Using a "Spear" is not different from using a sword or axe. What I suggest is that weapons are categorized into 3 groups: Slashing, Piercing, and Bludgeoning. Slashing weapons will have no armor pen, bludgeoning will have little, and piercing will have most. (Numbers are for concept, I'm not saying they're balanced)

• Slash: 0% pierce
• Blunt: 10% pierce
• Pierce : 20% pierce

How the piercing will work is that depending on the damage type X% of damage reduction from armor is ignored.
Examples:

A paladin with full iron (60% damage reduction) was hit by 50 damage:​

• • Slash: 50-60%=20
  • Blunt: 50-(60%*0.9)=23
  • Pierce:50-(60%*0.8)=26

A wizard with iron chest (24% damage reduction) was hit by 50 damage:​

• • Slash: 50-30%=35
  • Blunt: 50-(30%*0.9)=36.5
  • Pierce:50-(30%*0.8)=38

What this achieves is a way to balance classes so they deal decent damage to high armor classes without completely destroying squishies. Of course melee damage numbers will need to be adjusted, but I believe this change will make classes more unique and easier to balance.

So...Thoughts?: [USERGROUP=38][USERGROUP=38][USERGROUP=38]@Balance Team[/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP] @JupiterRome

 

[MunchlaxHero]

Seems cool

 

[Beau_Nearh]

*incoming text wall*

Really love the idea, but I'd like to see it more expanded on adding a larger varity (and also balancing it out so not only specific classes benifit from this possible change as giving more armor pen to classes that already have a lot would create angry forum posts )I would go about this by splitting up the four types of current classes we have. These would be;

Casters
Warriors
Rouges
Support/ healers

Now, each different type of category would have an additional passive skill given (just like the one you've described). Depending on the class would depend on the % of effectiveness the skill has while using melee (could also take into account that class's weapon of choice). The four types of passives I would add would be the following for each category;

Casters - chance to Inflict a magic knock back (3 - 5 blocks) OR Inflict extra magic damage (would be about 7-12 extra damage ontop)

Warriors - chance to daze the target. This daze would apply a slow II effect and nausea effect for 0.5 seconds

Rouges - just as you suggested, a chance to cause armour penetration OR general % of armour penetration

Support/healers - a small health steal OR mana steal OR stamina steal.

All of the values for these passives would be subject to balance*


Now, we've got our set passives for each catagory of classes. Let's break it up even more and specalise the classes (give each class catogory a different 'feel'). Below would be an example of how we would achive this by allowing each specific class within a category to have different values relating to it's lore/melee (all subject to balance);

Warriors

Bezerker - Has a 8% chance to daze the target
Dragoon - has a 6% chance to daze the target
Dread knight - has a 4% chance to daze the target
Paladin -has a 3% chance to daze the target

Now you're thinking, is this guy pulling values out his arse? Well yes and no, it is kinda based off lore (I think?). As you can see, I have given bezerker the highest chance of dazing the target, this is because bezerker is known (right?) for being nearly exclusive to melee while paladin on the other hand is know for being the 'tank'. This logic could be applied to all classes, another example would be wizard having a higher chance to cause a magic knock back when comparing to a necromancer.

The only problem with this method however would be what weapon of choice each class has. We could take pyromancer as an example. The classes weapon of choice is an axe however it is under the caster category. We would then have two possible solutions;

+ create passives based of what weapon the class uses (would be hard to balance surley?)
OR
+ just give it the warriors passive (would be the easier option)

I hope I've explained this well enough for you to understand the point I'm trying to make out, if not. Feel free to ask me any questions regarding this suggestion.

 

[malikdanab]

TBH I hate RNG and its hard to balance on hit effects. In terms of the pen, it doesn't have to be as strict as tiers and could be on a class-by-class basis. The main point of this is to balance out melee damage dealers so they can fight armored opponents without being OP against squishies.

 

[JupiterRome]

I Like this Idea!
Catorgories might be
Slashing - Swords, Blaze Rods, Piercing
Blunt - Axes (Mabye Blaze rods
Piercing- (maybe blaze Rods) Shovels, (Not Arrows See why)
Arrows Already Hit for 50ish Damage on my Full iron cain boots Projectile Prot IV Dreadknight, I think Arrows Should in No way get a buff, This would Promote Arrow Spam, (A Tactic Many Rangers Use) and Even Now winding your Arrows for .5 seconds is very OP Due to bow Strength, I would hate it to get a buff.

 

[ruger]

Piercing should be arrows and swords maybe? But make rouge chances of piercing strikes greater than warriors?

 

[Beau_Nearh]

TBH I hate RNG and its hard to balance on hit effects. In terms of the pen, it doesn't have to be as strict as tiers and could be on a class-by-class basis. The main point of this is to balance out melee damage dealers so they can fight armored opponents without being OP against squishies.

I do agree with you to an extent regarding the RNG but this is the only solution (that I can think of) to benefit all classes without effecting the gameplay too much. If your suggestion was to just be implemented, the viability of all rouge classes (and any other class gaining high pen damage) do increase a lot more when fighting warrior classes or similar heavier armoured classed.

Couple up this new passive with a class that already has high penetration damage, it would cause a bit of an upset to all players who have built their class around a 'tank' as they've spent most of their attribution points in armouring up rather than in other areas such as strength. All in all you can't reward certain play styles without taking other ones into account unless you fancy rebalancing quite a few classes.

 

[malikdanab]

Piercing should be arrows and swords maybe? But make rouge chances of piercing strikes greater than warriors?

What I was thinking:
Slash: swords
Blunt: axes and maces (if any in the future)
Pierce: daggers, spears, and arrows.

But like I said, damage numbers would need to be adjusted.

 

[malikdanab]

I do agree with you to an extent regarding the RNG but this is the only solution (that I can think of) to benefit all classes without effecting the gameplay too much. If your suggestion was to just be implemented, the viability of all rouge classes (and any other class gaining high pen damage) do increase a lot more when fighting warrior classes or similar heavier armoured classed.

Couple up this new passive with a class that already has high penetration damage, it would cause a bit of an upset to all players who have built their class around a 'tank' as they've spent most of their attribution points in armouring up rather than in other areas such as strength. All in all you can't reward certain play styles without taking other ones into account unless you fancy rebalancing quite a few classes.

I will disagree and say that this would actually make rogues viable. Currently, any fair fight between a rogue and a warrior will have the warrior win. Also, this isn't a straight up buff. In the case of ranger, the damage it deals to warriors is fine, but it deals too much against lightly armor classes. If this where to be implemented, you could lower the damage of arrows and yet deal similar damage to warriors as before.
Atm a ranger deals about 180 damage with its arrows. If the damage was lowered to 150 the damage would look like:

Warrior (50% armor):

• Now: 180-50%=90
• Then:150-(50%*.8)=90

Mage (30% armor):

• Now: 180-30%=126
• Then: 150-(30%*8)=114

With this, the ranger will be dealing the same damage to warriors, but actually be nerfed against squishy classes.

 

[ruger]

I like it!

 

[HeroGuy426]

 

[malikdanab]

Kill it! Kill it with a radioactive boltor!

 

[Clawscript]

Great to see so many ideas to make PvP even better!

*incoming text wall*

Really love the idea, but I'd like to see it more expanded on adding a larger varity (and also balancing it out so not only specific classes benifit from this possible change as giving more armor pen to classes that already have a lot would create angry forum posts )I would go about this by splitting up the four types of current classes we have. These would be;

Casters
Warriors
Rouges
Support/ healers

Now, each different type of category would have an additional passive skill given (just like the one you've described). Depending on the class would depend on the % of effectiveness the skill has while using melee (could also take into account that class's weapon of choice). The four types of passives I would add would be the following for each category;

Casters - chance to Inflict a magic knock back (3 - 5 blocks) OR Inflict extra magic damage (would be about 7-12 extra damage ontop)

Warriors - chance to daze the target. This daze would apply a slow II effect and nausea effect for 0.5 seconds

Rouges - just as you suggested, a chance to cause armour penetration OR general % of armour penetration

Support/healers - a small health steal OR mana steal OR stamina steal.

All of the values for these passives would be subject to balance*


Now, we've got our set passives for each catagory of classes. Let's break it up even more and specalise the classes (give each class catogory a different 'feel'). Below would be an example of how we would achive this by allowing each specific class within a category to have different values relating to it's lore/melee (all subject to balance);

Warriors

Bezerker - Has a 8% chance to daze the target
Dragoon - has a 6% chance to daze the target
Dread knight - has a 4% chance to daze the target
Paladin -has a 3% chance to daze the target

Now you're thinking, is this guy pulling values out his arse? Well yes and no, it is kinda based off lore (I think?). As you can see, I have given bezerker the highest chance of dazing the target, this is because bezerker is known (right?) for being nearly exclusive to melee while paladin on the other hand is know for being the 'tank'. This logic could be applied to all classes, another example would be wizard having a higher chance to cause a magic knock back when comparing to a necromancer.

The only problem with this method however would be what weapon of choice each class has. We could take pyromancer as an example. The classes weapon of choice is an axe however it is under the caster category. We would then have two possible solutions;

+ create passives based of what weapon the class uses (would be hard to balance surley?)
OR
+ just give it the warriors passive (would be the easier option)

I hope I've explained this well enough for you to understand the point I'm trying to make out, if not. Feel free to ask me any questions regarding this suggestion.

Malik is right, you need something to balance it out, making the weaker ones at something better at something else.

 

[Beau_Nearh]

Great to see so many ideas to make PvP even better!



Malik is right, you need something to balance it out, making the weaker ones at something better at something else.

Edit, you fixed it. Well I half agree with it and half don't.

 

[MariusAbyssal]

Don't really agree with arrows doing more dmg to heavily armored targets, just lore wise...

 

[Dreamcycler]

If dmg was adjusted, wouldnt it have ti be so that
Slash does the most raw dmg with least armor pen.
Blunts in between,
and pierce does the least raw dmg but most pen?

 

[malikdanab]

If dmg was adjusted, wouldnt it have ti be so that
Slash does the most raw dmg with least armor pen.
Blunts in between,
and pierce does the least raw dmg but most pen?

That was the idea, but of course there will be exceptions to the rule.

 

[Aryios]

Anvil for a Paladin hammer!

 

[Ultanian]

One of the more annoying things in terms of lore, variety, and balance is how all melee attacks work the same. Using a "Spear" is not different from using a sword or axe. What I suggest is that weapons are categorized into 3 groups: Slashing, Piercing, and Bludgeoning. Slashing weapons will have no armor pen, bludgeoning will have little, and piercing will have most. (Numbers are for concept, I'm not saying they're balanced)

• Slash: 0% pierce
• Blunt: 10% pierce
• Pierce : 20% pierce

How the piercing will work is that depending on the damage type X% of damage reduction from armor is ignored.
Examples:

A paladin with full iron (60% damage reduction) was hit by 50 damage:​

• • Slash: 50-60%=20
  • Blunt: 50-(60%*0.9)=23
  • Pierce:50-(60%*0.8)=26

A wizard with iron chest (24% damage reduction) was hit by 50 damage:​

• • Slash: 50-30%=35
  • Blunt: 50-(30%*0.9)=36.5
  • Pierce:50-(30%*0.8)=38

What this achieves is a way to balance classes so they deal decent damage to high armor classes without completely destroying squishies. Of course melee damage numbers will need to be adjusted, but I believe this change will make classes more unique and easier to balance.

So...Thoughts?: [USERGROUP=38][USERGROUP=38][USERGROUP=38][USERGROUP=38]@Balance Team[/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP][/USERGROUP] @JupiterRome

This could also be added to a lot of skills too right? (Strike, Bash, Maim, Kick, etc)

 

[malikdanab]

This could also be added to a lot of skills too right? (Strike, Bash, Maim, Kick, etc)

TBH i have NO idea if this could be coded, but I don't see why it shouldn't be a mechanic on skills.