Suggestion Current status of attributes and character stats on test

[Dakinara]

So the attribute system was changed on test so that classes start more or less very similar to live, and then attributes add bonuses over live stats. I have to say i preferred the old system where you started out weaker but had greater control over character stats and could theoretically make a melee wizard with chain armor but crappy spell damage, but maybe im in the minority on that.

However, the current bonus per point on test strongly favors raising agility for speed / movement skills and endurance for armor over all other stats. I know numbers are in flux but will have to up the damage / healing bonus on str / int / wisdom / charisma (for bards) to make them desirable comparatively. If constitution becomes linked to armor, it will also be a favored stat; if not, the hp per point will also need to be adjusted as it isnt all that valuable atm either (compared to agility / endurance).

 

[Kainzo]

It is by design that classes will gain pluses and minuses in their class so we have greater control over who wears plate, who uses spells. Granted this mold can be broken but it is necessary.

 

[Dakinara]

Yeah i totally agree, for example a wizard should start with low endurance but could theoretically raise it high enough to wear chain or maybe even iron if he really wanted to tank his other stats. I was just commenting that the recent change in test is a little funky as you get very little increase in damage / healing and hp / mana by investing in those stats, but potentially could gain much more impressive utility through movement speed / movement ability increases from agility, or, in theory i guess, much better armor through raising endurance. You still gain decent regeneration bonus from wisdom / endurance at least, but the dmg / healing bonus has gone very low due to classes starting with high damage at base stats. Same with bonus hp / mana, has gone very low as you start much higher than previously.

I preferred it when you started with lower base damage / healing and hp / mana and had to invest in those stats to get to live numbers (with the possibility of exceeding live numbers with heavy investment). Then there was a more substantive sacrifice to be made if you wanted to wear good armor, or move fast, etc. And there were advantages to using a hybrid build (taking advantage of diminishing return system) but also of building very specialized (pure caster with enough mana / regen to fight with just spells, or potentially wearing full diamond armor, or ridiculously high dmg total paper armor 600 hp ninja, etc).

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

I too had high hopes for the previous system. Now, it seems, point distribution does very little to the numbers since all the numbers are 'like live' anyway. I much preferred it where you'd be an absolute mess unless you used your points. In some aspects, you can add 20 points to a certain attribute and barely notice a difference.

The saving grace is that the numbers are still being tweaked, so hopefully when the final product comes out it'll look and feel like it was worth 2 months of Delf's time, and not a massive project that turns out being labeled as 'an attribute system that gives you SLIGHT control of customising your character'.

 

[Zephael_]

Is it possible to change it so that base stats are very low (ie. Not close to live values), but it's somehow "cheaper" for certain classes to spend points in certain attributes? For example, the gain per point spent in endurance is higher than avg for warrior classes.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

Is it possible to change it so that base stats are very low (ie. Not close to live values), but it's somehow "cheaper" for certain classes to spend points in certain attributes? For example, the gain per point spent in endurance is higher than avg for warrior classes.

This would make things even less customizable...

 

[Zephael_]

This would make things even less customizable...

Not at all. The idea is that all classes will start closer to a blank slate, and you would be able to see significant changes by adding to any attribute. However, making some attributes cheaper for some classes will keep with the idea that certain classes are better at certain things. As a kind of stupid real life example, it's like anyone can grow up to be anything, but really tall people are genetically predisposed to have a better chance of becoming basketball players.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

Sure, but then people would dump all of their points into the attributes that their class has the lowest point costs for. Thus, making customization a bad choice.

 

[Dakinara]

Is it possible to change it so that base stats are very low (ie. Not close to live values), but it's somehow "cheaper" for certain classes to spend points in certain attributes? For example, the gain per point spent in endurance is higher than avg for warrior classes.

IMO, the best way to do it is start some classes lower / higher in certain stats, as is done currently, and then make the diminishing returns based on points spent rather than total points in an attribute. For example, wizard starting at -5 endurance could spend 200 points to raise endurance by 30. Paladin starting at 10 endurance would also spend 200 points to raise endurance by 30. But the paladin now has 40 endurance, while the wizy only 25 - both had to make same investment, and paladin has clear armor advantage, but wizy can at least wear chain or something now. No idea if this would be problematic to program though. Then revert the damage / hp / mana changes so that someone starting with 10 int has a big mana / spell damage advantage over someone starting at -5, etc.

There will be some clear cases where a class just wont care about a stat - mainly warrior / rogue specs without spells just have very little reason to invest in intellect or wisdom right now (looking at dragoon, berserker, ninja? (is blitz dmg spell based?) etc) except to have enough mana to cast a few mana based abilities. One possible solution would be move spell resistance from constitution to intellect, or make it effected by both int and constitution. But either way I cant say that's really a huge advantage because a caster generally would not want to spec into strength either unless they reaaallly just wanted to left click stuff, which would probably be less than optimal in most situations but would work to at least some degree under the old attribute system.

At a minimum, the old system gave flexibility for major trade offs between damage, survivability (movement, hp, armor), and sustainability (wisdom, endurance for healing and resource regeneration). Currently we just have some minor bonuses from most stats and potentially two major stats to invest in (agility for movement speed, endurance for armor). Under the old system i cant think of any class that would not want to invest heavily in at least four stats, but they cant because of the limited number of attribute points. Therefore, at least some meaningful choices existed for all classes.

 

[Dakinara]

Looking at the wiki, even some dragoon and ninja abilities might be based on intellect for damage (or at least have mana requirements)- so there ya go, even they could use those stats a little.

 

[Kainzo]

I too had high hopes for the previous system. Now, it seems, point distribution does very little to the numbers since all the numbers are 'like live' anyway. I much preferred it where you'd be an absolute mess unless you used your points. In some aspects, you can add 20 points to a certain attribute and barely notice a difference.

The saving grace is that the numbers are still being tweaked, so hopefully when the final product comes out it'll look and feel like it was worth 2 months of Delf's time, and not a massive project that turns out being labeled as 'an attribute system that gives you SLIGHT control of customising your character'.

It was by design that the damage/numbers were lower. I never wanted this to change but I'll need to speak to @Delfofthebla