Bug "Client Side Lag" applies to all clients at the same time

[Templar_James]

It must be all your computers because I only get lag spikes every 5 minutes for like 6 seconds which isn't a big deal there are many more servers that are worse

 

[Danda]

Is it possible to get a different plugin like nocheat that won't lag?

NoCheat is currently the best out there. Which isn't saying much tbh it only has one competitor which is significantly worse. Also NoCheat doesn't "lag" per say it just thinks you're cheating when you drop connection for a brief period of time and forces you back to where you last were.

I personally quit playing on the main server due to the lag and kainzo's attitude towards it. He wants to say everything else is to blame when the truth is that this server is the laggiest server I've ever played on. How can minecraft not being optimized or peoples computers be to blame when this is hands down a herocraft issue. Lag is the main thing herocraft is known for.

You've stated in the past that you don't know what you're talking about yet you have the audacity to claim that we're lying. We've told you exactly what's wrong yet you're too bull headed and ignorant to listen to what we have to say.

 

[EvilThor]

Just saying, just because you live close to the data centre, doesn't mean you got a direct contact.

I can't say I got much lag, client, server or connection side.
(I live in Norway, and play on a laptop).
But of course I get lag spikes now and then..

 

[Aundora]

Okay, well do you know what causes everyone block lag?

 

[MultiHeartGold]

Okay, well do you know what causes everyone block lag?

Do you know what causes people's lack of reading skills?

 

[Aundora]

Do you know what causes people's lack of reading skills?

Why are you so damn annoying about everything, no where does it say anything about block lag.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

Why are you so damn annoying about everything, no where does it say anything about block lag.

Because you get annoyed when you get proved wrong with simple facts. You clearly just ignore what Danda and Kainzo are trying to say and shittalk without any facts. Try to read and comprehend what has been said.

 

[Aundora]

I'm not shit talking, dear God. Block lag is not caused by a persons Internet or computer considering every single person I know experiences it.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

I'm not shit talking, dear God. Block lag is not caused by a persons Internet or computer considering every single person I know experiences it.

Then you either dont know me or I just dont notice block lag as anything that annoys me. And if you cant find where the "block lag" is explained, read the quotes under this. That explains a bit.

Also NoCheat doesn't "lag" per say it just thinks you're cheating when you drop connection for a brief period of time and forces you back to where you last were.

1) Staff (mod/admin+) have certain exemptions from NoCheatplus. So they don't get the "pull back" that Nocheat brings in.
2) Players do not have this exemption, so they must abide by what Nocheatplus tells them to do, INCLUDING bringing them back to their spot if they "think" they did something they shouldn't.
3) If a network hiccup occurs, the CLIENT can't send information to the server for whatever reason. Which NoCheatplus thinks the player lagging is actually hacking, so it rubber-bands them.

 

[leftovers5]

Go on you Kain for not locking this thread. I think this is a discussion that needs to be had.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

Go on you Kain for not locking this thread. I think this is a discussion that needs to be had.

This would be a good discussion if most of people actually tried to read and comprehend what Kainzo is trying to explain instead of being all "My computer isnt shit so your server lags 24/7".

 

[Scycor]

The lag isn't terrible, it just happens at random times. I only get lag (not fps) when in PvP/Skirmishes. I switched from Disciple because my forcepush only worked 50% of the time. But that may be just because I have a 1 bar connection to my internet in my room.

 

[Kainzo]

The lag isn't terrible, it just happens at random times. I only get lag (not fps) when in PvP/Skirmishes. I switched from Disciple because my forcepush only worked 50% of the time. But that may be just because I have a 1 bar connection to my internet in my room.

We are working on fixing this issue. It is called Spout-server. The main issue I believe stems from Nocheat (anti-cheat systems). Spoutserver has anti-cheat build in, internally so it is so much better.

Now, I still stand by that 90% of lag is CLIENT side - (this means connection/cpu/gpu and other things relating) but the solution is to use Spout-server and have vanilla clients connect.

With Spout-server, the SERVER dictates to the client how it operates. Right now the CLIENT dictates to the server. It's very bad for cheating and when you try and put in anti-cheat, you are 100% butting heads with the server.

 

[Danda]

The lag isn't terrible, it just happens at random times. I only get lag (not fps) when in PvP/Skirmishes. I switched from Disciple because my forcepush only worked 50% of the time. But that may be just because I have a 1 bar connection to my internet in my room.

No I've noticed that nocheat fucks with forcepush a lot.

 

[Fjordsen]

The only times I have connection lag, my internet lags aswell. I can't access Youtube, forums or facebook etc. So I don't really have lag except the times my router and home network screws up. Turning off my cellphone and Ipad often fixes my problems with lag, as they share the WiFi at home.

 

[Delfofthebla]

Not sure what you're speaking about... but that isn't how a client / server works. Someone is hosting the server in that client / server match up. IE, the CLIENT is LAGGING and it IS the server.
That's why games like that suffered, because there was no universal server system. Here we have one and it's beefy.

I am not referring to when the "host" lags. Even if you were not the host, client side lag effected everyone. If your client was lagging, it would pause the game for everyone, and each player, including the host, would be forced to wait for you to catch up.

110% incorrect. That's like saying its google's fault if the internet goes down.
Routing issues are in fact the ISP / Data center / Gateway's issue. It is very common place for an upstream provider to go down - and then shovel the connections onto their backup.

Do not bring this up in game again - it will be muted/ignored - it is not the place to have a long drawn out debate and that is the exact reason why we have these forums.

I won't. Is there any chance I can be un-muted though?

Yeppers.
Truth be told that the 1.4 update sucks a massive one. In this particular case - I think it may be Nocheatplus having massive issues. But here's why.

1) Staff (mod/admin+) have certain exemptions from NoCheatplus. So they don't get the "pull back" that Nocheat brings in.
2) Players do not have this exemption, so they must abide by what Nocheatplus tells them to do, INCLUDING bringing them back to their spot if they "think" they did something they shouldn't.
3) If a network hiccup occurs, the CLIENT can't send information to the server for whatever reason. Which NoCheatplus thinks the player lagging is actually hacking, so it rubber-bands them.

This is the most likely case here. Now why is it happening now on 1.4.5? I haven't a clue. It's not something I directly control and I can only configure nocheat so far before allowing hacks.

What do you want, a server without protection and less lag or a server with protection and a little lag?

Honestly all I want are explanations like these. I would much rather read this than read "I have no lag. It's client side." So thank you for bringing us up to speed in some way.

The lag isn't terrible, it just happens at random times. I only get lag (not fps) when in PvP/Skirmishes. I switched from Disciple because my forcepush only worked 50% of the time. But that may be just because I have a 1 bar connection to my internet in my room.

I agree here. Sometimes it's really bad, and it can cause a lot of frustration. But for the most part it is just really spiky.

No I've noticed that nocheat fucks with forcepush a lot.

Is it nocheat that messes with this? Because I've had similar issues with backflip for ninjas, and I'm wondering if that's the same issue.

We are working on fixing this issue. It is called Spout-server. The main issue I believe stems from Nocheat (anti-cheat systems). Spoutserver has anti-cheat build in, internally so it is so much better.

Now, I still stand by that 90% of lag is CLIENT side - (this means connection/cpu/gpu and other things relating) but the solution is to use Spout-server and have vanilla clients connect.

With Spout-server, the SERVER dictates to the client how it operates. Right now the CLIENT dictates to the server. It's very bad for cheating and when you try and put in anti-cheat, you are 100% butting heads with the server.

Well, I'm looking forward to the change--we might see a difference in the lag then.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

Kainzo, while I am excited to see what happens with Spoutserver, can you speak to what's on the future horizon for Minecraft in general? I've heard that Mojang's grand vision for Minecraft is to make it all about modding and server hosting. Are they planning on optimizing their server software (e.g. enabling MULTITHREADING)? I'm just wondering what your understanding of this is.

As for the current host you are using to run the Herocraft server, you mentioned it is very beefy. It seems like a bottleneck might be the data center's routing. Is there any way you can pay to have increased priority? Or any way you can pay to improve network performance? If so, I think a lot of Herocraft members would be willing to kick some money into a fund to improve Herocraft's network performance, so long as you make the transaction very transparent.

 

[Paul_Bakken]

Does nocheatplus produce logs? Wouldn't a review of such logs reveal whether or not nearly every player on the server at a particular time was suspected by the plugin of fly hacking or whatever -- all at the same time? Seems like that might produce a definitive answer as to whether or not nocheatplus is the culprit.

 

[awsumguy75321]

Not trying to me mean or anything, but I have no idea what you all are talking about with lag. I have very little lag on a shit computer. Usually, Minecraft lags a lot. If anything, this proves that Herocraft is fast enough to support my usually laggy computer- or it proves that i have no idea what i'm talking about.

 

[j2gay]

There are several factors being overlooked by some of the commenters here. First of all there is an increasing level of incompatibility between Java and Microsoft's products. I'm not sure who else here is running windows 8 but when you are you will most likely need to run both minecraft and Java in compatibility mode to even consider playing, as windows 8 has several known Java compatibility issues. Microsoft and Sun Microsystems don't exactly get along.
Next there is the issue of your internet connection. Minecraft requires a constant back and forth between the Host and the client. If you have a dsl connection, low grade broadband, or an old router (18 months or older)you will experience lag based solely on this, especially ifyou are using a wirelss connection. Also I believe Herocraft is still running DDOS protection. The packet scanning tis requires will surely slow down the dtr between the players and the server, especially during peak times. If you have a high quality anti-virus program like Kapersky or Webroot these can cause connection delays as they scan incoming data packets(depending on your settings and exceptions)
Even if any one of these factors was not enough to cause the lag you are experiencing, add them up and throw in the no cheat and there is a whole lot of potential for rubber-banding and such. If these factors where to conspire to cause a 2sec delay in the client/server communication, and no cheat choses the servers positioning over the client you will be thrown back the distance you moved in those 2secs(an easy 30 blocks if your sprinting)
Another contributor to lag, Java is terrible at managing memory so the longer you play the more lag you have.
I guess what I am trying to say is that 90% of the lag issues are beyond Kainzo's control and the other 10% he is continually working on.