Suggestion Clicking mechanics

[Dewyn]

You can fix the left click mechanics without reverting versions, it shouldn't be that hard if thats the path we take

The thing is, I'm not seeing this happening.

 

[Skaahr]

I can't say I fully understand why everyone hates the new mechanics so much. It finally adds a bit of meat to the fighting in Minecraft. Maybe Herocraft doesn't entirely need that, but I think it's something that, with a bit of tweaking, could work very well for this server.

It adds a bit of punishment for clicking randomly instead of just spamming lmb+skills (skills with a bit of care at least) as fast as you can. A sword user won't suffer quite as much punishment, but they don't deal as much damage when they hit, either. An axe user will suffer more major punishment, but deal more damage when they do hit. The new clicking mechanics give players without such crazy fast clicking reflexes (For instance, my average clicks per second is around 6. Not that great.) a chance in PvP.

One thing I think the server could do is, instead of making it so you can attack when your attach is recharging (I honestly do not know why Mojang decided that was a good idea) is make it so that you cannot attack while it is recharging, like a sort of Mining Fatigue effect.

For instance, with the mod Tinkers' Construct, there was a weapon called the Cleaver, which would deal almost twice the damage a sword would, but you could only attack around once a second or so. (Mining Fatigue III). Something like this would also help against people who use autoclicker, which is still a problem with the Combat Update's system - I was attacked by someone last night who was able to hit me at ~50 times a second - even through damage diminishing, that was incredibly hard to fight against.

 

[Avoir]

I can't say I fully understand why everyone hates the new mechanics so much. It finally adds a bit of meat to the fighting in Minecraft. Maybe Herocraft doesn't entirely need that, but I think it's something that, with a bit of tweaking, could work very well for this server.

It adds a bit of punishment for clicking randomly instead of just spamming lmb+skills (skills with a bit of care at least) as fast as you can. A sword user won't suffer quite as much punishment, but they don't deal as much damage when they hit, either. An axe user will suffer more major punishment, but deal more damage when they do hit. The new clicking mechanics give players without such crazy fast clicking reflexes (For instance, my average clicks per second is around 6. Not that great.) a chance in PvP.

One thing I think the server could do is, instead of making it so you can attack when your attach is recharging (I honestly do not know why Mojang decided that was a good idea) is make it so that you cannot attack while it is recharging, like a sort of Mining Fatigue effect.

For instance, with the mod Tinkers' Construct, there was a weapon called the Cleaver, which would deal almost twice the damage a sword would, but you could only attack around once a second or so. (Mining Fatigue III). Something like this would also help against people who use autoclicker, which is still a problem with the Combat Update's system - I was attacked by someone last night who was able to hit me at ~50 times a second - even through damage diminishing, that was incredibly hard to fight against.

Just going to throw this out there, hitting some one 50 times in a second just isn't possible with or without auto-clicker... Mincraft has invulnerably timers for players just like they do with mobs, every time a player gets hit they can't receive damage for 0.5 seconds if I remember right.

 

[Skaahr]

Just going to throw this out there, hitting some one 50 times in a second just isn't possible with or without auto-clicker... Mincraft has invulnerably timers for players just like they do with mobs, every time a player gets hit they can't receive damage for 0.5 seconds if I remember right.

Yeah, I know. I said that the mining fatigue attach cooldown would help get rid of autoclicker and just used that experience as a side note.

 

[Irishman81]

Just saying, when I logged on briefly today I checked to see what classes people were playing. Out of the 47 people, there were only 9 between the classes of Dragoon, Paladin, Berserker, Dreadknight, Samurai, Ninja, and Runeblade. I know a couple maps ago there was a class spread to see what people were playing; it would be interesting to see how low the playrate of warriors/some rogues has been since the 1.9 changes.

 

[joshtsai]

Just saying, when I logged on briefly today I checked to see what classes people were playing. Out of the 47 people, there were only 9 between the classes of Dragoon, Paladin, Berserker, Dreadknight, Samurai, Ninja, and Runeblade. I know a couple maps ago there was a class spread to see what people were playing; it would be interesting to see how low the playrate of warriors/some rogues has been since the 1.9 changes.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was low. Some more facts: I didn't get a true count on the total numbers but there were definite trends within the tournament teams that did well, and the classes they chose. Mages, Bard, and Disciple all had a heavy representation in teams that won, maybe be because of the strong team fight potential, and or the fact that there isn't a left click cool down. I would say, probably Paladin did the best in the entire tournament. No DK or other axe users were really played, aside from the one person I saw playing Shaman that wasn't 0xNaomi.

 

[Dewyn]

I can't say I fully understand why everyone hates the new mechanics so much. It finally adds a bit of meat to the fighting in Minecraft. Maybe Herocraft doesn't entirely need that, but I think it's something that, with a bit of tweaking, could work very well for this server.

It adds a bit of punishment for clicking randomly instead of just spamming lmb+skills (skills with a bit of care at least) as fast as you can. A sword user won't suffer quite as much punishment, but they don't deal as much damage when they hit, either. An axe user will suffer more major punishment, but deal more damage when they do hit. The new clicking mechanics give players without such crazy fast clicking reflexes (For instance, my average clicks per second is around 6. Not that great.) a chance in PvP.

One thing I think the server could do is, instead of making it so you can attack when your attach is recharging (I honestly do not know why Mojang decided that was a good idea) is make it so that you cannot attack while it is recharging, like a sort of Mining Fatigue effect.

For instance, with the mod Tinkers' Construct, there was a weapon called the Cleaver, which would deal almost twice the damage a sword would, but you could only attack around once a second or so. (Mining Fatigue III). Something like this would also help against people who use autoclicker, which is still a problem with the Combat Update's system - I was attacked by someone last night who was able to hit me at ~50 times a second - even through damage diminishing, that was incredibly hard to fight against.

Everything I've found on the internet has said "no you cannot get the player's attack timer", though this makes me wonder how Heroes has handled this, since Heroes very obviously takes the attack timer into account when attacking (hitting a mob with goon at full charge deals a solid 400 or so at level 60, but if you ignore the attack timer that seriously diminishes). I haven't seen any of the 1.9 source yet, so I'm not certain how it functions. @Kainzo @Sleaker any input here?

 

[LordZelkova]

Everything I've found on the internet has said "no you cannot get the player's attack timer", though this makes me wonder how Heroes has handled this, since Heroes very obviously takes the attack timer into account when attacking (hitting a mob with goon at full charge deals a solid 400 or so at level 60, but if you ignore the attack timer that seriously diminishes). I haven't seen any of the 1.9 source yet, so I'm not certain how it functions. @Kainzo @Sleaker any input here?

There's a passive PvE damage multiplier that increases per level. Even before attack timers, classes did more damage vs mobs @ 60 (Both Skills and Melee have their own Multipliers).

 

[Dewyn]

There's a passive PvE damage multiplier that increases per level. Even before attack timers, classes did more damage vs mobs @ 60 (Both Skills and Melee have their own Multipliers).

I know this already, I was explaining that the damage diminishes, therefore the attack timer does come into play when attacking with melee, but I wasn't sure how they handled this in code.

 

[LordZelkova]

I know this already, I was explaining that the damage diminishes, therefore the attack timer does come into play when attacking with melee, but I wasn't sure how they handled this in code.

Ah, I misunderstood which part your were questioning

 

[Dewyn]

No worries, I understand the general consensus on my intelligence is quite low

...;-;

 

[Kenneth_Chow]

In my opinion hit timers should be removed on regular minecraft tools back to like it was in 1.8 but have it do very little damage. But also have it where you can trade medals,symbols, or through ./shop buy tools that have slower hit timers but do huge amounts of damage compared to the regular minecraft tools.

Therefore you either trade damage for attack speed or attack speed for damage. Don't know if this is possible though

 

[0xNaomi]

Everything I've found on the internet has said "no you cannot get the player's attack timer", though this makes me wonder how Heroes has handled this, since Heroes very obviously takes the attack timer into account when attacking (hitting a mob with goon at full charge deals a solid 400 or so at level 60, but if you ignore the attack timer that seriously diminishes). I haven't seen any of the 1.9 source yet, so I'm not certain how it functions. @Kainzo @Sleaker any input here?

We time it manually on our end based on what we know the timer should be.
It is presently impossible to get the timer's position on hit, as it's set to 0 before the event is fired.

 

[Kainzo]

In my opinion hit timers should be removed on regular minecraft tools back to like it was in 1.8 but have it do very little damage. But also have it where you can trade medals,symbols, or through ./shop buy tools that have slower hit timers but do huge amounts of damage compared to the regular minecraft tools.

Therefore you either trade damage for attack speed or attack speed for damage. Don't know if this is possible though

This may be an easily doable fix.

 

[Dewyn]

We time it manually on our end based on what we know the timer should be.
It is presently impossible to get the timer's position on hit, as it's set to 0 before the event is fired.

Ahh, thanks Naomi ^^ forgot you were actually active on the forums sorry, else I would have tagged you

Clever fix, not something I'd have done but if it works it works.

 

[Skaahr]

Adding on to Kenneth_Chow's idea, maybe we could make it so Blacksmiths can craft versions of the slower weapons for the different materials, and have both fast and slow versions of the ones you can buy with medals and symbols. Maybe the slow weapons could be Greatswords and Greataxes, and staves, and the others all regular. Swords, axes, and maybe wands or something.