Suggestion Clicking mechanics

[Sleaker]

Basically, the way Heroes handles damage, it cancels any EntityDamageByEntityEvent and replaces it with a simulated damage event (that is, the NMS code is there to actually trigger the entity playing its hurt sound and flashing red/being knocked back - for people who don't know what that means, it means the plugin hooks directly into Minecraft's code instead of operating through Spigot's more user-friendly API).

This is so so incredibly wrong and not at all what is going on behind the scenes it makes me laugh. But besides that, it doesn't matter how heroes handles damage. What matters is how the end result is translated to the player in an intuitive fashion.

 

[Dakinara]

idc really, if it can be done do it, if it cant just try to balance it as best you can.

I just want sum castle warzzzz

 

[Dewyn]

This is so so incredibly wrong and not at all what is going on behind the scenes it makes me laugh. But besides that, it doesn't matter how heroes handles damage. What matters is how the end result is translated to the player in an intuitive fashion.

Wrong? huh.

That's exactly what was happening in the handler in the 1.8 public distribution when I worked on...um...the thing.

Unless you mean my definition of API or whatever, in which case I have absolutely no idea what I'm saying.

Please do enlighten me, though. (I'm not being sarcastic, I'd like to learn.)

 

[UnlimitedTurtlez]

This thread is about the 1.9 left click mechanics, for the past few weeks players (myself included) have been complaining about the left click mechanics and quite frankly they suck... I myself have not touched any of my favorite classes such as paladin/dragoon because I simply cannot deal with the changes.

I've been looking into some very big PVP servers to see how they coped with the change so I could get a better idea if pvpers enjoyed the 1.9 clicking mechanics and to my suprise some of the biggest PVP servers out there didn't even update to 1.9 due to the fact they they would lose a whole community. What I'm saying is Kainzo, please listen to the community who love this server, please listen to the players who are begging you to change the clicking mechanics and I promise you you'll see a growth of players, because the fact is people don't adapt well to change and they simply enjoy 1.8 mechanics better.

Now I know some people are going to say "You don't represent the server" and that's very true, so lets vote and see how many people actually like or dislike these mechanics.

- Thank you

that's life things change , and tbh 1.8 is no skill, just who ever is the bigger cunt with the fastest finger wins

 

[0xNaomi]

I think cooldowns are a good conceptually, but we've got two main problems before they stop sucking:

1. We have default timers on everything, which don't match up with all the classes.
2. Missing counts against the timer the same as a hit. It should really be reduced/none if we can get that much control.

I'll leave my thoughts at that, for the moment.

 

[o0ONeroO0o]

Lots of the good PVP servers are 1.8, or is 1.9 but reverted combat mechanics to 1.8. And there's a reason for this, they know what they're doing.

The real reason combat mechanics were changed in 1.9 was not because of "change" or bringing new stuff to the dinner table, its to prevent the combat exploiters from gaining an advantage in PVP. Honestly I think 1.9 didn't change this though, as there is still aimbot.. and im guessing theres a way to exploit attack speed as well.

that's life things change , and tbh 1.8 is no skill, just who ever is the bigger cunt with the fastest finger wins

Although this is true, now its the matter of the cunt who can get the other person to miss their clicks..

Clicking value has risen ^ in terms of hit or miss, but at the cost of speed and flow in combat.

 

[o0ONeroO0o]

I feel like everyone was missing the whole point of why these mechanics were changed, simply put to stop PVP "hackers".

 

[Egorh]

Lots of the good PVP servers are 1.8, or is 1.9 but reverted combat mechanics to 1.8. And there's a reason for this, they know what they're doing.

The real reason combat mechanics were changed in 1.9 was not because of "change" or bringing new stuff to the dinner table, its to prevent the combat exploiters from gaining an advantage in PVP. Honestly I think 1.9 didn't change this though, as there is still aimbot.. and im guessing theres a way to exploit attack speed as well.



Although this is true, now its the matter of the cunt who can get the other person to miss their clicks..

Clicking value has risen ^ in terms of hit or miss, but at the cost of speed and flow in combat.

I feel like everyone was missing the whole point of why these mechanics were changed, simply put to stop PVP "hackers".

I don't think it was done to combat hackers on servers but more of minecraft general direction they are heading. I also feel like it is meant more for singleplayer because any short amount of testing would show the 'problems' while pvping in groups

 

[MunchlaxHero]

I don't think it was done to combat hackers on servers but more of minecraft general direction they are heading. I also feel like it is meant more for singleplayer because any short amount of testing would show the 'problems' while pvping in groups

lol

 

[o0ONeroO0o]

I don't think it was done to combat hackers on servers but more of minecraft general direction they are heading. I also feel like it is meant more for singleplayer because any short amount of testing would show the 'problems' while pvping in groups

yeah umm, if it was more for singleplayer they wouldnt have a need to change it lmao.

not really sure what you were going with

 

[Sleaker]

Wrong? huh.

That's exactly what was happening in the handler in the 1.8 public distribution when I worked on...um...the thing.

Unless you mean my definition of API or whatever, in which case I have absolutely no idea what I'm saying.

Please do enlighten me, though. (I'm not being sarcastic, I'd like to learn.)

So the core damage system doesn't actually cancel the events. What it does is fires additional Heroes-specific damage events so that other heroes-plugins (or 3rd party addons) can modify damage while knowing about heroes information. Once those events are resolved heroes compiles all the modifiers and does a bunch of maths to figure out what it needs to set in the original damage event so the player's health comes out properly (and not do things like break your equipment in one hit).. For the most part the only thing Heroes messed with related to nms was the invulnerability tick timer that prevented players from being able to take damage. Minecraft does some weird things for combat that make it really difficult to allow people to take damage more than once every half second, this is also why there can be wierdness when a player is on fire etc.

lol rekted

Not at all.

I feel like everyone was missing the whole point of why these mechanics were changed, simply put to stop PVP "hackers".

This is possible. Also the pre-1.9 minecraft had players go invulnerable to (some) damage every half second, rather than preventing players from swinging more than once every half second. So there was this period of time where you couldn't take damage similar to old arcade games (like Super Mario). Where you wouldn't take damage while your avatar was flashing.

 

[Kainzo]

The current system isnt working great and I know that. Wanting to adjust things without falling back on the old system.

 

[VeritbleLyncathp]

I agree! Please bring back the old mechanics!

 

[Dewyn]

Might be a stupid suggestion but:

As has been stated before, the current system penalizes you far too much for missing.

Another server I used to play on had a thing where when you performed a basic attack it had a much more generous area of effect, so even if your crosshair was a bit off you'd still hit your target (also worked very well against groups of mobs). If this were implemented somehow, it might be a little less of a penalty, and current weapon mechanics now support a small AoE anyway. They're much less forgiving about accuracy, though (I've had the crosshair slightly to the left/right of a mob's center while 1-2 blocks behind and it didn't even register the hit).

Just another suggestion since it seems like we are definitely not going back to 1.8 click mechanics. I thought I would focus on improving the accuracy of click detection instead of trying to go back to producing the most clicks possible.

 

[Dewyn]

The main issue people are having with 1.9 is the click timer not the accuracy of clicking. Clicking slow pains me...even 4 clicks a second is painfully slow. Imo it just dumbs down combat.

I do not know how they did it, but the other server has weapons with modified attack timers. Eg: 1.6 attacks per second was changed to 7 attacks per second. This was visible when you hover over the weapon. This was a 1.9 server as shields were enabled.

edit: 95% of the community still played on the 1.8 version of the server anyway lol

Well, that isn't difficult. It involves changing an item tag.

Changing attack speeds would also mean we have to change damage on each weapon, but whatever works.

I have no problem hitting players, I have lots of problems hitting mobs because their hitboxes are now apparently smaller than the model.

 

[Egorh]

Attack speed is not a big issue for PvE because for the most part monsters are quite two dimensional. Mythic mobs expands on it a bit more but they are still quite simple. Heroes (more so in PvP) already has layers of complexity on how to fight, they make it fast paced. Keeping in a mechanic that severely slows down combat is not what we should aim for.

The easiest way to deal with this would be to set the attack speed to 8 clicks a second. A lot of people can get above this but for the majority this is something easily achievable.

 

[Fjordsen]

1.9 clicking is the equiv of riot adding dynamic q, CANCER

Tbf I'd prefer cancer over dynamic queue.

 

[EmilyRoseV]

This thread is about the 1.9 left click mechanics, for the past few weeks players (myself included) have been complaining about the left click mechanics and quite frankly they suck... I myself have not touched any of my favorite classes such as paladin/dragoon because I simply cannot deal with the changes.

I've been looking into some very big PVP servers to see how they coped with the change so I could get a better idea if pvpers enjoyed the 1.9 clicking mechanics and to my suprise some of the biggest PVP servers out there didn't even update to 1.9 due to the fact they they would lose a whole community. What I'm saying is Kainzo, please listen to the community who love this server, please listen to the players who are begging you to change the clicking mechanics and I promise you you'll see a growth of players, because the fact is people don't adapt well to change and they simply enjoy 1.8 mechanics better.

Now I know some people are going to say "You don't represent the server" and that's very true, so lets vote and see how many people actually like or dislike these mechanics.

- Thank you

Dear Avoir,

I understand that u don't like the Click Mechanic, But you should also understand that more minercraft versions will be coming out and we can't stay on 1.7 / 1.8 Forever. And one more thing i think you are already aware of this but it's really hard to upgrade all the plug-ins to a higher version so if they would change back all their effort would have been for nothing.

Kind Regards,

EmilyRoseV

 

[Irishman81]

Dear Avoir,

I understand that u don't like the Click Mechanic, But you should also understand that more minercraft versions will be coming out and we can't stay on 1.7 / 1.8 Forever. And one more thing i think you are already aware of this but it's really hard to upgrade all the plug-ins to a higher version so if they would change back all their effort would have been for nothing.

Kind Regards,

EmilyRoseV

You can fix the left click mechanics without reverting versions, it shouldn't be that hard if thats the path we take

 

[EmilyRoseV]

You can fix the left click mechanics without reverting versions, it shouldn't be that hard if thats the path we take

Oh okay, i did not know thanks for the response!