Suggestion Clicking mechanics

[Avoir]

This thread is about the 1.9 left click mechanics, for the past few weeks players (myself included) have been complaining about the left click mechanics and quite frankly they suck... I myself have not touched any of my favorite classes such as paladin/dragoon because I simply cannot deal with the changes.

I've been looking into some very big PVP servers to see how they coped with the change so I could get a better idea if pvpers enjoyed the 1.9 clicking mechanics and to my suprise some of the biggest PVP servers out there didn't even update to 1.9 due to the fact they they would lose a whole community. What I'm saying is Kainzo, please listen to the community who love this server, please listen to the players who are begging you to change the clicking mechanics and I promise you you'll see a growth of players, because the fact is people don't adapt well to change and they simply enjoy 1.8 mechanics better.

Now I know some people are going to say "You don't represent the server" and that's very true, so lets vote and see how many people actually like or dislike these mechanics.

- Thank you

 

[iAlchemist]

This thread is about the 1.9 left click mechanics, for the past few weeks players (myself included) have been complaining about the left click mechanics and quite frankly they suck... I myself have not touched any of my favorite classes such as paladin/dragoon because I simply cannot deal with the changes.

I've been looking into some very big PVP servers to see how they coped with the change so I could get a better idea if pvpers enjoyed the 1.9 clicking mechanics and to my suprise some of the biggest PVP servers out there didn't even update to 1.9 due to the fact they they would lose a whole community. What I'm saying is Kainzo, please listen to the community who love this server, please listen to the players who are begging you to change the clicking mechanics and I promise you you'll see a growth of players, because the fact is people don't adapt well to change and they simply enjoy 1.8 mechanics better.

Now I know some people are going to say "You don't represent the server" and that's very true, so lets vote and see how many people actually like or dislike these mechanics.

- Thank you

I think we should really be sticking to moving ahead, and people just have to adapt. Change is gonna happen, and we may not liken it, but we're gonna damn well deal with it. Sadly that means we might lose some players.

 

[radicater11]

I'm going to have to agree with you not on the basis that I can't adapt to the new mechanics, but the fact that PvP just isn't as fun anymore. I feel like I'm playing a mobile mini game where you have to click at exactly the right time. Also, despite the balance teams efforts, PvP still doesn't feel like it's balanced, because warriors are border lining on the single target burst of some casters and rogues, just with more health and armor.

 

[Avoir]

Thanks for the feedback, keep spreading the thread around so players can vote!

 

[Ice]

A click mechanic like this doesn't belong on a game like Minecraft. It tries to make it a completely different game but it's not.

 

[Eldrex]

I agree with you Avoir... My opinion on this subject has varied, but after speculation I've decided that I do think that 1.8 mechanics should be restored. The overwhelming amount of players who wish to have the 1.8 mechanics restore is shocking to me. The 1.9 mechanics make player versus player awkward, due to having to stand there waiting for your hits to cooldown. My decision is really for the good of the server, as I agree with Avoir that removing the hit timers will make it easier for new players to enjoy the server, overall increasing the player count (even if it is just a little). Bring back the 1.8 PvP.

 

[Leo2596]

As a pver on the server I completely agree.

 

[Egorh]

1.9 Attack speed comes with so many problems. It is very hated in vanilla and I feel like those problems are amplified in heroes because there is also so much more going on.

For a good 4+ years minecraft left click mechanics were basically the same (please don't go point out shit where it actually had a big change, you get my point). For years heroes has developed classes and skills based on the previous clicking mechanics. It comes out to be a smooth, fast-paced pvp experience. 1.9 attack speed destroyed smooth pvp for any melee class that has to use it. Things are designed to lead in to eachother, follow a certain pattern of skills, all while left click constantly. It just becomes clunky with attack speed.

If attack speed was in since the start of development it would be much different because classes would be designed based around it (which they are currently not).

From what I've heard the main reason it is staying in is because 'plans for the future', and it has even been said by Kainzo that the vanilla attack speed is not working well with Heroes. Even mentioned that they are trying to develop their own system (I am not 100% certain on this but I think I've heard it mentioned). The main point I'm trying to get through with this is that we are keeping the flawed vanilla system while we wait an uncertain amount of time for a better system. Why not return to the former glory of no attack speed while we wait for a system that actually works well with heroes

 

[Irishman81]

I can personally say that the most fun I had on the map was when the items were broken and I could click as fast as I wanted again. Now granted the damage output was insane, I've missed having fights were it actually feels like I'm doing something as a warrior class. The timer prevents locking people in combos, and strafing doesn't really matter anymore. I know some people feel like just smashing your mouse isn't very skillful, but in my opinion beating someone in 1.8 vs 1.9 not only seems more skill reliant, but its more satisfying and enjoyable gameplay.

 

[Dewyn]

1.9 Attack speed comes with so many problems. It is very hated in vanilla and I feel like those problems are amplified in heroes because there is also so much more going on.

For a good 4+ years minecraft left click mechanics were basically the same (please don't go point out shit where it actually had a big change, you get my point). For years heroes has developed classes and skills based on the previous clicking mechanics. It comes out to be a smooth, fast-paced pvp experience. 1.9 attack speed destroyed smooth pvp for any melee class that has to use it. Things are designed to lead in to eachother, follow a certain pattern of skills, all while left click constantly. It just becomes clunky with attack speed.

If attack speed was in since the start of development it would be much different because classes would be designed based around it (which they are currently not).

From what I've heard the main reason it is staying in is because 'plans for the future', and it has even been said by Kainzo that the vanilla attack speed is not working well with Heroes. Even mentioned that they are trying to develop their own system (I am not 100% certain on this but I think I've heard it mentioned). The main point I'm trying to get through with this is that we are keeping the flawed vanilla system while we wait an uncertain amount of time for a better system. Why not return to the former glory of no attack speed while we wait for a system that actually works well with heroes

It's definitely sticking around.

Trying to figure something out on IRC right now, I suggested a compromise:

Basically, the way Heroes handles damage, it cancels any EntityDamageByEntityEvent and replaces it with a simulated damage event (that is, the NMS code is there to actually trigger the entity playing its hurt sound and flashing red/being knocked back - for people who don't know what that means, it means the plugin hooks directly into Minecraft's code instead of operating through Spigot's more user-friendly API).

That said, we could leave the current mechanic in for PvE, where charge timers are okay because it's not nearly as fast paced as PvP. When it comes to PvP, the charge timer would be ignored, and melee strikes will do less damage than the full charge amount but they will do the same damage regardless of charge (this way we could let goon's melee strikes do 60 damage or so like they did on Valorium [last map I played actively] in PvP, but keep their ability to deal 400 damage a hit to mobs, because I hate mobs).

I feel like this is a viable compromise; keep old PvP mechanics but move forward with PvE. I can say from personal experience that trying to PvP with the charge timer is kind of...clunky. Blame Mojang.

 

[joshtsai]

It's definitely sticking around.

Trying to figure something out on IRC right now, I suggested a compromise:

Basically, the way Heroes handles damage, it cancels any EntityDamageByEntityEvent and replaces it with a simulated damage event (that is, the NMS code is there to actually trigger the entity playing its hurt sound and flashing red/being knocked back - for people who don't know what that means, it means the plugin hooks directly into Minecraft's code instead of operating through Spigot's more user-friendly API).

That said, we could leave the current mechanic in for PvE, where charge timers are okay because it's not nearly as fast paced as PvP. When it comes to PvP, the charge timer would be ignored, and melee strikes will do less damage than the full charge amount but they will do the same damage regardless of charge (this way we could let goon's melee strikes do 60 damage or so like they did on Valorium [last map I played actively] in PvP, but keep their ability to deal 400 damage a hit to mobs, because I hate mobs).

I feel like this is a viable compromise; keep old PvP mechanics but move forward with PvE. I can say from personal experience that trying to PvP with the charge timer is kind of...clunky. Blame Mojang.

If you could make that work, I would like to see that in action.

 

[Jrr_]

Yes would like to the see the clock speed reverted. One thing the server has kind of struggled on in times is reacting to the community. Basically good changes were made to late, let's not let this happen again.

 

[pure_autism]

I think we should really be sticking to moving ahead, and people just have to adapt. Change is gonna happen, and we may not liken it, but we're gonna damn well deal with it. Sadly that means we might lose some players.

Just because there's change doesn't mean it's a good idea or healthy for the game.

 

[Avoir]

Keep spreading it around and voting!

 

[Avoir]

@Kainzo

 

[iAlchemist]

@Kainzo

As disappointing as this may sound, it has to be said:

If we don't change now, we're going to have to change later. Learn now more than later. If we spend our time rejecting 1.9 then we'll have to adapt later when another major update comes out, or the one after that. I'm all for coming up with new ways to get around the mechanics (although I hated the system before.I hate this system more, specifically for heroes.) But we can't go back to 1.8. There are plenty of hAndy additions in 1.9 that.I think should stay, and we need to stay in the habit of remaining in the current version.

It's alright to complain about it, but I don't think going back a version is worth while. Now making a work around...that's worth it.

 

[Irishman81]

As disappointing as this may sound, it has to be said:

If we don't change now, we're going to have to change later. Learn now more than later. If we spend our time rejecting 1.9 then we'll have to adapt later when another major update comes out, or the one after that. I'm all for coming up with new ways to get around the mechanics (although I hated the system before.I hate this system more, specifically for heroes.) But we can't go back to 1.8. There are plenty of hAndy additions in 1.9 that.I think should stay, and we need to stay in the habit of remaining in the current version.

It's alright to complain about it, but I don't think going back a version is worth while. Now making a work around...that's worth it.

It's possible to revert the left clicking mechanics without reverting back to the 1.8 version, I think that's what we're talking about here.

 

[KingNate42]

Just not very fun having to play warrior classes basically as casters with the 1.9 clicking cool down. Slows the fast paced combat that herocraft previously has had.

 

[iAlchemist]

It's possible to revert the left clicking mechanics without reverting back to the 1.8 version, I think that's what we're talking about here.

I'm all for that, then.

 

[Wild_Porygon]

1.9 clicking is the equiv of riot adding dynamic q, CANCER