Clerics

[Diffuse]

Why are clerics so strong?

Comparing a level 50 dragoon to a level 50 cleric I believe it is safe to assume that the cleric will win every single time if they know what they are doing. The cleric has 4 less base health than the dragoon and does 2 less damage. However if we assume that the cleric is spamming pray every 3 seconds (making the safe assumption that they will go through their whole mana bar) they effectively have 230 health. It will take the dragoon approximately 26 or so hits to kill the cleric whereas the cleric will only have to hit 21 or so times to kill the dragoon. Note that this is assuming the dragoon hits with 3 impales (15 damage each) and that the cleric is not using consume ever.

The issue is that the cleric is REALLY strong and can fight on the level of a fighter while they are supposed to be supporting. The numbers are all taken from the wiki so if they're wrong please correct (all calculations were done really fast in my head so they may be wrong too). The numbers are also assuming that neither is wearing armor (clerics have better armor than dragoon btw).

I see no reason to be any type of healer other than a cleric. I also see no reason to be a dragoon, dreadknight or paladin either when you can essentially have the same strength in fighting, but also be able to support insanely well also.

 

[Sleaker]

Healers (minus bloodmage) are currently on the good side of the class selection at the moment, that's why we are going through and attempting to balance them out a bit. We will be looking at heal amounts and such to try to make them a bit more balanced out.

 

[Danda]

Diffuse just saying you should try to read up on what happens in the meetings
Kainzo mentioned in the meeting that Healers were getting a nerf.

 

[Kainzo]

I think adjusting the hp a healers to be a bit less - would make sense.

The strength of healing is what makes them so powerful.

 

[Spicycheez]

This is true, Clerics are suppose to heal and be a support class yet they always rape you in a 1v1 or even 1v(insert ridiculous number here) It came clear when one cleric got a 10 kill streak and multiple bounties from one arena match.

 

[AzenYumCha]

I literally rage when I defeat people as a Cleric or Monk because they complain with utter excuses - they're like 'it's not fair, you heal!'
Get real, 'Healing' is the primary component of what makes a Healer, a Healer.

 

[Kophka]

I literally rage when I defeat people as a Cleric or Monk because they complain with utter excuses - they're like 'it's not fair, you heal!'
Get real, 'Healing' is the primary component of what makes a Healer, a Healer.

I think it's more that monks deal more damage in a fight than warrior classes except samurai, plus having barely less health, plus being able to heal themselves constantly. The cleric gets the same armor and hp as a warrior, but deals less damage in exchange for being able to heal. That's probably what they feel is unfair.

 

[Danda]

I literally rage when I defeat people as a Cleric or Monk because they complain with utter excuses - they're like 'it's not fair, you heal!'
Get real, 'Healing' is the primary component of what makes a Healer, a Healer.

Mabye so but you shouldn't be able to out tank tanks.

 

[AzenYumCha]

I understand what you both mean. Since 1.8, the only reliable healing method during PvP is via Bandage, Pray, Groupheal and Chant. IMO, these healing skills don't really need to be decreased in terms of health-healing amounts, but a higher cooldown - so there isn't much constant use of healing. Boosting pray for example from 3s to let's say 6s - double the amount.

Warrior are designed to be defensive, but the cleric has some of the traits of the warrior - high HP and Great variety of armor. I reckon warrior specs need to all have more defensive mechanisms. However, a paladin already has a heap of them - Pray, Endurance, Best Armour, Highest HP. Dragoons are the ones that need higher defense mechanisms. Adding a diamond helmet to their armour, idk - but yes, Dragoons need to be more buff - something that Healers won't be able to counterattack with.

 

[Diffuse]

As it is, clerics are one of the best in a 1v1 situation which should not be so for a healer. They also have the best supporting which is fine since they are support, but it is so much better than the other healers its ridiculous. They also are the best or second best tanks right now. They need a nerf to heal so badly. I suggest moving the cooldown up to around 5 seconds and the mana cost to 20-25 for pray.

 

[AzenYumCha]

You seem very demanding for a nerf on Clerics.
Who was the specific Cleric who killed you?

 

[Diffuse]

It has nothing to do with a specific cleric who killed me. It has more to do with my experiences in trying to kill clerics and them NEVER dying. I have fought a lot of clerics and they never die, so I looked at some numbers and realized how retarded the amount of healing they get is along with their armor and health.

 

[AzenYumCha]

'Who was the specific Cleric who killed you?' - Was my question, answer it regardless of this discussion. lol

and another question - Who are the specific Clerics you 'try' to kill?

 

[Diffuse]

Skyboy, popeye, jzil, barnubus and a few others I don't remember. Popeye was the only one I've actually lost to, but fighting any of them is just as dumb as fighting him.

 

[Trok]

*Single Tear* l2Crafter <--- Never PvP.

 

[Danda]

I understand what you both mean. Since 1.8, the only reliable healing method during PvP is via Bandage, Pray, Groupheal and Chant. IMO, these healing skills don't really need to be decreased in terms of health-healing amounts, but a higher cooldown - so there isn't much constant use of healing. Boosting pray for example from 3s to let's say 6s - double the amount.

Warrior are designed to be defensive, but the cleric has some of the traits of the warrior - high HP and Great variety of armor. I reckon warrior specs need to all have more defensive mechanisms. However, a paladin already has a heap of them - Pray, Endurance, Best Armour, Highest HP. Dragoons are the ones that need higher defense mechanisms. Adding a diamond helmet to their armour, idk - but yes, Dragoons need to be more buff - something that Healers won't be able to counterattack with.

Yes I completely agree. Though from what I have heard from Kainzo atm the HP of healers is also decreasing.

 

[ICherry_girl]

This may not be my conversation, but why not try setting the higher up healing abilities only allowed to be targeted on other players? It would not only strengthen the role in supporting but sort of "Put this class in it's place" type of nerf.

 

[Diffuse]

@ICherry_girl Any conversation on the forums is your conversation lol. Also I like the idea, but it still leaves clerics as the best support beyond any other healer imo. The fact that clerics are supremely powerful fighters overall is one problem and the fact that they are better support than any other healers is a separate, but equally important issue. I don't want clerics to become useless, but more in line and as it is I don't see any reason to be a bloodmage or druid (monk is just weird as a healer spec)

 

[AzenYumCha]

HP decreasing? meh, fair deal. Clerics could just pray regardless.

To make a cleric more of the 'support' class, the Healing amount on yourself should be decreased very slighty but on a target - the values stay same as it is. Pray could be doing only 10hp on yourself but on others, it still does the same 15hp.

Bandage and Chant aren't really threats in PvP because of their CD or healing amount, but it's really Pray that is the most OP since it has a quick CD with efficient mana consumerism and 15hp healing. Mana 20% and a 5s CD should work out, I reckon.

 

[Kainzo]

We're still in the process of adjusting the healers - so sit tight