Cleric

[Irishman81]

Since we are trying to balance all the healers first, I thought we could do cleric next.

This post is for cleric discussion.


My initial thoughts are directed towards fullheal, which has a very short cooldown.

 

[Egorh]

My thoughts on Cleric:

• FullHeal is too spammable
• Divine Blessing scales too well
• Buff Holy Water (you should get a good heal for something you actually need to aim)
• I also think Guardian Angel is OP but I don't know what the other members think
• Increase Revive CD (same thing for Druid and Bloodmage)

 

[malikdanab]

Just for reference:
Cleric: 1min
Shaman: 45s
Druid: 45s
Bloodmage: 2min

 

[Glacial_Reign]

Revive shouldn't have a low cd on any class

 

[Egorh]

Revive shouldn't have a low cd on any class

In the tournament it was used countless times (by a single person) when it should be that the person using revive should only be able to use it once (unless the fight is very dragged out)

 

[malikdanab]

So we talking about 5ish minutes here?

 

[Eldrylars]

My thoughts on Cleric:

• FullHeal is too spammable
• Divine Blessing scales too well
• Buff Holy Water (you should get a good heal for something you actually need to aim)
• I also think Guardian Angel is OP but I don't know what the other members think
• Increase Revive CD (same thing for Druid and Bloodmage)

Yes, I agree, that fullheal is too spammable, and think that it should get a longer CD, but I also think that if it does get a longer CD it should be balanced with a slightly reduced cast time as it already takes 25% of the Clerics mana.

• CoolDown increase to 40 seconds
• Warmup decrease to 3 seconds

I don't know that I agree with dropping Divine Blessing that much, it's scaling with 40 Wisdom is 250 AOE(Max 5 person) heal. It's scaling is so high because it's base healing was reduced by 50% with the introduction of attributes.

Holy water currently only heals for 135 with 40 Wis, but honestly I feel that is where it belongs. It's instant cast, reletivaly low mana and 7 block radius which is pretty good.

Guardian Angel is a very strong spell but it does sap a lot of mana and is generally only able to be used once, maybe twice in a fight. This would be hard to change without destroying it. One thing that might work and would switch it from a "big play" to a "setup" skill would be

• CoolDown decrease to 45 seconds
• ManaCost dcrease to 200
• Duration decrease to 1.5 seconds

I agree that all revives should be on a longer cooldown, but until GTP is fixed to have a 5+ minute timer prevently recently revived players that this is a worthless change(Except in tournaments.). Perhaps eventually change it more in the area of 3 minutes. You want to be able to perform them, and this should limit it to 1-2 per fight. I would not suggest making this change until GTP is somehow restricted though as it's far superior to revive and is only on a 5 minute CD

 

[Eldrylars]

So we talking about 5ish minutes here?

I don't believe that's a good change while GTP still revives your entire party as well as grouping still living members on a 5 minute timer.

 

[Eldrylars]

I would add that if HolyWaters mob damage could be raised by 50% then it would help Clerics level a lot.

 

[Eldrylars]

Guardian Angel is a very strong spell but it does sap a lot of mana and is generally only able to be used once, maybe twice in a fight. This would be hard to change without destroying it. One thing that might work and would switch it from a "big play" to a "setup" skill would be

• CoolDown decrease to 45 seconds
• ManaCost dcrease to 200
• Duration decrease to 1.5 seconds

This would change the function into a momentary pause to reposition or assess, instead of a 3 second power play. Bringing the CD and Cost down will allow it to show more often, but with much weak results than the "Big Play" 3 second version.

 

[malikdanab]

This would change the function into a momentary pause to reposition or assess, instead of a 3 second power play. Bringing the CD and Cost down will allow it to show more often, but with much weak results than the "Big Play" 3 second version.

Would be interesting to do this and make it more reactive rather than proactive.

 

[Eldrylars]

Would be interesting to do this and make it more reactive rather than proactive.

I am not sure it would be more balanced, but I have thought of ways to change Guardian and pretty much everything just breaks it lol.

 

[Ruger392]

Cleric needs to have more buffs and increase some of the cooldowns, if you want i can talk numbers if you agree

 

[Eldrylars]

Honestly though, before anyone spends more time on it, I would ask "What is wrong with Cleric? Where is it to strong and where is it to weak?" or more importantly "Where is Cleric Imbalanced?"

Arbitrarily changing individual skills without a platform and target functionality change, is really just like playing kick the can right?

I will start with a weakness of Cleric - it's inability to fight, both mobs and players effectively. Killing a large slime literally takes 740 blocks if it splits 4 times each time. 740....

How about we get some more weaknesses and strengths and focus on what changes could balance it out as a whole instead of just a skill here and a skill there.

 

[Egorh]

Yes, I agree, that fullheal is too spammable, and think that it should get a longer CD, but I also think that if it does get a longer CD it should be balanced with a slightly reduced cast time as it already takes 25% of the Clerics mana.

• CoolDown increase to 40 seconds
• Warmup decrease to 3 seconds

I don't know that I agree with dropping Divine Blessing that much, it's scaling with 40 Wisdom is 250 AOE(Max 5 person) heal. It's scaling is so high because it's base healing was reduced by 50% with the introduction of attributes.

Holy water currently only heals for 135 with 40 Wis, but honestly I feel that is where it belongs. It's instant cast, reletivaly low mana and 7 block radius which is pretty good.

Guardian Angel is a very strong spell but it does sap a lot of mana and is generally only able to be used once, maybe twice in a fight. This would be hard to change without destroying it. One thing that might work and would switch it from a "big play" to a "setup" skill would be

• CoolDown decrease to 45 seconds
• ManaCost dcrease to 200
• Duration decrease to 1.5 seconds

I agree that all revives should be on a longer cooldown, but until GTP is fixed to have a 5+ minute timer prevently recently revived players that this is a worthless change(Except in tournaments.). Perhaps eventually change it more in the area of 3 minutes. You want to be able to perform them, and this should limit it to 1-2 per fight. I would not suggest making this change until GTP is somehow restricted though as it's far superior to revive and is only on a 5 minute CD

I am not a big fan of reducing the warmup on FullHeal, a skill that heals someone to full should be hard to get off. Maybe:

• Cooldown increase to 40s
• Mana decrease to 275

Reducing the scaling on Divine Blessing is not going to make the skill weak.

• 2.75 hp per point of wisdom: 120 + 2.75(40) = 230
• 2.5 hp per point of wisdom: 120 + 2.5(40) = 220

If it hits 5 members

• 250 * 5 = 1250
• 230 * 5 = 1150 (you lose 100 AOE healing)
• 220 * 5 = 1100 (you lose 150 AOE healing)

It is still going to be a strong heal but by weakening Divine Blessing it allows us to buff something that requires more 'skill'. Which in this case is Holy Water. Cleric is fairly easy, and simple so I think we need to move some power into the ability that is harder to use

• 2.25 hp per point of wisdom: 60 + 2.25(40) = 150
• 2.5 hp per point of wisdom: 60 + 2.5(40) = 160

If it hits 5 members

• 135 * 5 = 675
• 150 * 5 = 750 (you gain 75 AOE healing)
• 160 * 5 = 800 (you gain 125 AOE healing)

If you look at the numbers you aren't realing losing much healing. It is just transfering the power of Cleric to a different skill

I agree with the Guardian Angel stuff other than the cooldown. It just seems a bit too low. Bumping it up between 60s and 90s would be more appropriate.

You need to remember that we are mainly balancing around 5v5s, not large 10v10s where one of your people could sneak away to get a GTP off. Although the skills technically do the same thing (bring a player to the skill user) they have very different uses. GTP is mean't to be used out of combat as a tool to group your team up before the fight (I am not 100% on this but I don't even think you can warmup GTP in the middle of combat). While Revive is used in combat to bring back a specific person to the fight. In my opinion GTP and Revive are not a very good comparison

 

[Egorh]

Honestly though, before anyone spends more time on it, I would ask "What is wrong with Cleric? Where is it to strong and where is it to weak?" or more importantly "Where is Cleric Imbalanced?"

Arbitrarily changing individual skills without a platform and target functionality change, is really just like playing kick the can right?

I will start with a weakness of Cleric - it's inability to fight, both mobs and players effectively. Killing a large slime literally takes 740 blocks if it splits 4 times each time. 740....

How about we get some more weaknesses and strengths and focus on what changes could balance it out as a whole instead of just a skill here and a skill there.

I'll have to disagree with not being able to effectively fight players. In a 1v1 situation it has the tankiness and self heals to simply win by kiting, healing, and smiting over and over again. In a group its damage is barely noticeable

 

[Eldrylars]

I'll have to disagree with not being able to effectively fight players. In a 1v1 situation it has the tankiness and self heals to simply win by kiting, healing, and smiting over and over again. In a group its damage is barely noticeable

I suppose with a KB weapon you could kite well enough with a Cleric, but the second your target tries to run or you fight any target with some cc or range and you will have a very hard if not impossible time killing them eh? Not that a Cleric should be fighting any rogue classes anyhow.

 

[Eldrylars]

I am not a big fan of reducing the warmup on FullHeal, a skill that heals someone to full should be hard to get off. Maybe:

Should have started with Paladin here
But I digress, it's all up for testing but lets try to get the whole picture worked out so keep at it.

Reducing the scaling on Divine Blessing is not going to make the skill weak.

I never said it would make it weak, just saying the scaling is that high to keep it similar to the earlier version.

It is still going to be a strong heal but by weakening Divine Blessing it allows us to buff something that requires more 'skill'. Which in this case is Holy Water. Cleric is fairly easy, and simple so I think we need to move some power into the ability that is harder to use

I would not call HolyWater much of a skill shot with a 7 block radius and one of the easiest arcs to master, but it is certainly more skill then just a burst from your person. Your suggestion could work fine, weakening one AOE heal to strengthen another. It's all just about where you want the skills to be. I am not against the suggestion, I just know that it would change much. All in all I would call it an overall buff to Clerics AOE healing if implemented.

I agree with the Guardian Angel stuff other than the cooldown. It just seems a bit too low. Bumping it up between 60s and 90s would be more appropriate.

Yeah, it could work. It just needs some testing.

In my opinion GTP and Revive are not a very good comparison

Although wizards cannot take the beating a Cleric can, a Wizard is one of the most mobile classes in the game and can easily get away from most fight and GTP. We have done it hundreds of times in the past and although it will not port players in combat, it will port back every dead player and everyone outside of combat which is the closet comparison skill to Revive.

 

[Glacial_Reign]

Make revive cd 3-5 mins depending on if we can agree on a cd for it. That should be the starting point at least

 

[Ruger392]

A regular revive should be 2 minutes but a full health revive should always be 5 minutes