Suggestion Cleric

[shinigamiblack]

I feel clerics have lost a valuable spell out of their rotation when ampul was taken out. The loss of its utility as a group heal as well as an instant cast self heal now makes the class feel a little unbalanced. I am hoping we can get the warm up/ cool down of another heal shifted slightly in order to help balance out the loss of ampul.

 

[macura]

Clerics have ampul last time i checked(yesterday), was it just taken our? Even if it was taken out my opinion on this would be that it makes cleric more balanced than less.

 

[0xNaomi]

As of when it was taken out yesterday, I can assure you it was not for any gameplay reasons.
Kainzo said that Ampul was breaking the server (not balance, performance) and had to be taken out.

 

[what777]

Cleric is OP already, it is more balanced without ampul (and still too strong).

 

[shinigamiblack]

As of when it was taken out yesterday, I can assure you it was not for any gameplay reasons.
Kainzo said that Ampul was breaking the server (not balance, performance) and had to be taken out.

That is what I heard, I was just stating that since it was taken out it there is a hole in the healing rotation making for what seems to me unbalanced.

Cleric is OP already, it is more balanced without ampul (and still too strong).

I was waiting for someone to cry cleric is OP!!

You understand the concept behind a healer right? Since a clerics only damage is smite (100hp) and possibly might/melee (currently 50hp for me at lvl 51) they would be beaten in pvp without their heals. Just because you cant beat them doesnt make them OP, they are just good at what they are designed to do.

Just a little FYI prior to ampul being taken out I could pretty much heal on par with the damage most DPS classes could dish out and escape, since my dps and mobility are almost nil. Now one silence/kick breaks my rotation and = death every time.

 

[what777]

That is what I heard, I was just stating that since it was taken out it there is a hole in the healing rotation making for what seems to me unbalanced.



I was waiting for someone to cry cleric is OP!!

You understand the concept behind a healer right? Since a clerics only damage is smite (100hp) and possibly might/melee (currently 50hp for me at lvl 51) they would be beaten in pvp without their heals. Just because you cant beat them doesnt make them OP, they are just good at what they are designed to do.

Just a little FYI prior to ampul being taken out I could pretty much heal on par with the damage most DPS classes could dish out and escape, since my dps and mobility are almost nil. Now one silence/kick breaks my rotation and = death every time.

Cleric is OP atm, they have really good armor, high base HP, FullHeal on 15seconds cooldown and a 210 groupheal. The only reason why they are not nerfed is because it fits the lore to be really strong. As a cleric you have groupinvuln and revive aswell, atm this class is the best healer class and way too strong in every aspect.

 

[shinigamiblack]

Cleric is OP atm, they have really good armor, high base HP, FullHeal on 15seconds cooldown and a 210 groupheal. The only reason why they are not nerfed is because it fits the lore to be really strong. As a cleric you have groupinvuln and revive aswell, atm this class is the best healer class and way too strong in every aspect.

You have still yet to validate your point, the class was working how it was meant to (as far as I understand it), being able to heal a group proficiently without dieing. As to your argument of full heal and group heal, both have a warm up which can be silenced/kicked, and a CD of 20 and 15 sec respectively, which is an extremely long time considering a ninja (just an example) is doing 106 dmg a swing before even using skills. Also group heal only has an 8 block radius. Now for the groupinvul it lasts 4.5 sec and can be dispelled. Also I have no idea why you brought revive up as it has a 10 second warmup; no cleric in their right mind would use it in a fight, it is purely a group utility spell. So again the clerics were good at what they are meant to do unless you have some other justification....

 

[what777]

You have still yet to validate your point, the class was working how it was meant to (as far as I understand it), being able to heal a group proficiently without dieing. As to your argument of full heal and group heal, both have a warm up which can be silenced/kicked, and a CD of 20 and 15 sec respectively, which is an extremely long time considering a ninja (just an example) is doing 106 dmg a swing before even using skills. Also group heal only has an 8 block radius. Now for the groupinvul it lasts 4.5 sec and can be dispelled. Also I have no idea why you brought revive up as it has a 10 second warmup; no cleric in their right mind would use it in a fight, it is purely a group utility spell. So again the clerics were good at what they are meant to do unless you have some other justification....

They are too good at what they are supposed to do, anyone that regulary PVPs knows that.

A ninja doesn't do 106 dmg, it does 52% of 106. So around 60 per hit. Cleric's armor is insane for a class with this many heals.

 

[Diffuse]

I'm not sure if ampul was buffed or if you haven't leveled cleric up all the way yet but honestly as a cleric I never used the damn thing once. The reason for this is that as a cleric, the survival of my team tended to rely only on my mana pool, not the damage the enemy team was doing to mine. Ampul came with a heavy mana cost for relatively low amounts of health. I would always choose to not bother using it because my team would survive until I ran out of mana anyway as a result of my other healing skills being far too powerful.

In terms of pure healing I actually think cleric has all the other specs beat. In melee damage it only loses to disciple by about 10. In tankyness it far surpasses any of the other healing specs. In overall utility it surpasses the other specs as well due to group invuln, dispel and might.

Overall, with or without ampul, cleric is by far the strongest healing spec.

 

[0xNaomi]

Wiki said Ampul was 200HP for 30MP.
Thing is, it's INSTANT. Works so much better than targeting people, and none of that "Target is not in your line of sight" annoyance.

 

[Eldrylars]

Overall, with or without ampul, cleric is by far the strongest healing spec.

For group combat...

For solo a master Disciple or a master Mystic should be able to beat a well played Cleric. Hell even a properly played Bloodmage can beat a Cleric.
It all comes down to knowing a classes strengths and weaknesses.
DK, BM, Sammy, Bard, Ninja, Disc and Mystic are all strong against Clerics.
Dragoon, Paly, Ranger, Runeblade, Wizard, Guiler, Necro and Pyro are all mediocre at killing a Cleric.

Honestly it seems more "balanced" then any other class if you consider my statement to be true.

 

[shinigamiblack]

I'm not sure if ampul was buffed or if you haven't leveled cleric up all the way yet but honestly as a cleric I never used the damn thing once. The reason for this is that as a cleric, the survival of my team tended to rely only on my mana pool, not the damage the enemy team was doing to mine. Ampul came with a heavy mana cost for relatively low amounts of health. I would always choose to not bother using it because my team would survive until I ran out of mana anyway as a result of my other healing skills being far too powerful.

In terms of pure healing I actually think cleric has all the other specs beat. In melee damage it only loses to disciple by about 10. In tankyness it far surpasses any of the other healing specs. In overall utility it surpasses the other specs as well due to group invuln, dispel and might.

Overall, with or without ampul, cleric is by far the strongest healing spec.

The damage the enemy team does directly correlates to the amount of mana you spend via heals., thus depleting your mana pool. Also the only healing spell that could be consider too powerful is full heal, but it has a 5 sec warm up and a 20 sec CD negating any OPness. Your role as a cleric is group healing, as it is now group heal is the only AOE heal we possess, limiting the size of the group we can heal as our range is now limited from 18 blocks (ampul 10 block range + groupheal 8 block range) down to 8, without using single target heals. Also ampul was aimable and groupheal is not. Also it was a 5MP difference between ampul and group heal and only a 10HP difference which ampul offset by being instant.

Also considering the burst damage some dps classes are capable of chant barely covers a huge initial burst, so a chant followed by an instant ampul would cover the majority of a burst.

You are correct in terms of pure healing cleric is the best, but look at the other "healing" classes and cleric is the only one that is a healer spec(besides mystic). The tankyness is a neccessity as we lack the CC that the other specs have root/force push/constrict. The utility is debatable as some would consider the mystic a better utility class.

 

[what777]

Ampul used to heal the enemys too, so that is why it was bad in most cases.

 

[Eldrylars]

Ampul used to heal the enemys too, so that is why it was balanced in most cases.

See what I did thar?

 

[macura]

For group combat...

For solo a master Disciple or a master Mystic should be able to beat a well played Cleric. Hell even a properly played Bloodmage can beat a Cleric.
It all comes down to knowing a classes strengths and weaknesses.
DK, BM, Sammy, Bard, Ninja, Disc and Mystic are all strong against Clerics.
Dragoon, Paly, Ranger, Runeblade, Wizard, Guiler, Necro and Pyro are all mediocre at killing a Cleric.

Honestly it seems more "balanced" then any other class if you consider my statement to be true.

Clerics are not intended to be a 1v1 class, they are a support class. Which is why the have skills such as guardian angel, might and heals.


I highly disagree with what you believe can kill a cleric. Caster specs are not good against clerics. I have no idea where you are getting this from. Beguilers (0n your list) cannot kill clerics. Unless the cleric takes 1-2 fireballs and then gets perfectly combo'd twice using piggify then masspiggify then the beguiler simply cannot kill the cleric. Their mana runs out become they can do enough damage. Same goes for wizard but to a lesser extent, if you can strafe 1-2 fireballs then you can outlast the mana of a wizard. This especially goes for necros, i have no idea how a necro could kill a cleric. These are the specs listed that i know are at a severe, almost impossible, disadvantage against a cleric.

The only classses that are possibly at an advantage at killing a cleric are dk and samurai with a very slight possiblity of runeblade or disciple. That is not many counters to have as a majority support spec and those who do not have an advantage over clerics pretty much get shit on if they cleric knows that they are doing.

 

[shinigamiblack]

Ampul caused a server crash, I had to rip it out. We will get the dev to fix it or add in another skill to replace it.

Herocraft 4.80 is coming hopefully in the next day or so. You can read the notes @ hc.to/patchnotes

That answers everything...

 

[huntmoak]

They are too good at what they are supposed to do, anyone that regulary PVPs knows that.

A ninja doesn't do 106 dmg, it does 52% of 106. So around 60 per hit. Cleric's armor is insane for a class with this many heals.

Look man, know what a cleric does? Heals. Do ninjas heal? No. Does any warrior spec other than paladin? No. What makes healers unique? THEY HEAL BRO. Yeah sure they can be called OP But any person good with a particular class is "OP", Because they are Strong with that class. So what you get ticked that a cleric tanks your damage, you obviously don't know about bash, or even kick. All the classes are balanced. Yes the armor is insane, if you want to kill the strongest healing class, that can FREAKING BRING BACK THE DEAD, in a 5 second rush. You are simply angry at the fact that cleric has the most healing moves, what do you want? Cleric skills: Pray, Bandage (No smite its op! Every other healing move as well!!) Is that what you want? If its so "OP" Go cleric your self and bring back your #1 elo spot bro.
~Oakenshire Cleric Clinic CEH (Chief Executive Healer)~

 

[shinigamiblack]

Look man, know what a cleric does? Heals. Do ninjas heal? No. Does any warrior spec other than paladin? No. What makes healers unique? THEY HEAL BRO. Yeah sure they can be called OP But any person good with a particular class is "OP", Because they are Strong with that class. So what you get ticked that a cleric tanks your damage, you obviously don't know about bash, or even kick. All the classes are balanced. Yes the armor is insane, if you want to kill the strongest healing class, that can FREAKING BRING BACK THE DEAD, in a 5 second rush. You are simply angry at the fact that cleric has the most healing moves, what do you want? Cleric skills: Pray, Bandage (No smite its op! Every other healing move as well!!) Is that what you want? If its so "OP" Go cleric your self and bring back your #1 elo spot bro.
~Oakenshire Cleric Clinic CEH (Chief Executive Healer)~

^
This

 

[MonsTheSexy]

Ampul was in my opinion the best heal we had when fighting. Without a warm up, this is the only heal that wont leave us defenseless in a fight. If your one of those classes that splurge all your abilities then run away, then ya you will lose to a cleric. I am making a new post to request clerics getting a increase in skills.

 

[northeaster345]

I think cleric is strong, but not imbalanced at this point, after the hp nerf. That being said, wizards will run out of mana before they kill a cleric, though if they don't invuln, you may just barely have enough mana (after replenish) to kill a cleric.

I don't expect casters to be good against healers, you trade your mana for their mana, and you will run out.