Cleric

[leftovers5]

For Cleric discussion.

 

[macura]

I think that we should take another look into cleric. Even though it is a support class it remains one of the best, if not the best, 1v1 class. Even in colosseums the person who is ranked #1 is a cleric.

 

[Dsawemd]

I think colosseums favor the tanky and the survival builds, as the current arena seems a bit small. The point is, col duels are not strong reasons to take a look at cleric lol. Edit: I obviously agree it needs a look, see rest of post.

I think where we are seeing problems is Cleric's bread and butter damage move, Smite.

Because of their effective heals and invulns, kiting until Smite is off CD, while engaged (ie with a melee on them/a ranged firing anything but slows/CCs), is possible. What if we lowered the range of Cleric's Smite, to force them to melee a bit more, stay a bit more in range of kick or stuns, and force them to remain engaged with an enemy they want to damage.
Lore: For all the talk about a Cleric being a frontline healer, they seem to use one skill at medium range, then run around a lot. Let's make them need to be closer to be effective offensively.

 

[macura]

I think colosseums favor the tanky and the survival builds, as the current arena seems a bit small. The point is, col duels are not strong reasons to take a look at cleric lol. Edit: I obviously agree it needs a look, see rest of post.

I think where we are seeing problems is Cleric's bread and butter damage move, Smite.

Because of their effective heals and invulns, kiting until Smite is off CD, while engaged (ie with a melee on them/a ranged firing anything but slows/CCs), is possible. What if we lowered the range of Cleric's Smite, to force them to melee a bit more, stay a bit more in range of kick or stuns, and force them to remain engaged with an enemy they want to damage.
Lore: For all the talk about a Cleric being a frontline healer, they seem to use one skill at medium range, then run around a lot. Let's make them need to be closer to be effective offensively.

Cleric has might and pretty decent armor, they don't do much melee damage but with their heals you can pretty much out melee anything. Imo smite really isn't the problem, it is ampul, might, and their tankiness.

Ampul is cleric's only heal without a warmup and if the cleric cannot get off a different type of heal because it is being interupted they can just used ampul. In my fights on the test server as a cleric it saved me probably 3 times a fight, and it causes clerics to be relatively un-killable.

Clerics do not need might. Plain and simple. They provide far too much support with their unmatched healing and survivability. The members of the party of a cleric do not need a damage bonus on top of heals that they are receiving.

Lastly their tankiness. IMO i find it ridiculous that a healer-support class can currently go head to head with melee specs and win, which they are easily able to do. I still think that they need their iron chest plate taken away.

Sidenote: only the first section of this post was intended as a reply to dsa's post.

 

[Dsawemd]

1. Cleric ... can pretty much out melee anything. Imo smite really isn't the problem, it is ampul, might, and their tankiness.

2. Ampul is cleric's only heal without a warmup and if the cleric cannot get off a different type of heal because it is being interupted they can just used ampul.

3. The members of the party of a cleric do not need a damage bonus on top of heals that they are receiving.

4. Lastly their tankiness. IMO i find it ridiculous that a healer-support class can currently go head to head with melee specs and win, which they are easily able to do. I still think that they need their iron chest plate taken away.

I abbreviated ur post, not a direct quote. ^was a more comprehensive look at Cleric play than I had done, but we come down to the same thing: Cleric offensive solo PvP should be more difficult than it already is.

1. Depending on situation/opponent, Smite n' Kite can be the issue, or Melee survivability combined with competitive damage can be the issue. I agree that in both cases I see Cleric, a healer spec, winning too quickly/easily. They should be forced to outlast their opponents if we are keeping with lore and Kainzo's spec goals.

2. I would rather remove Ampul's ability to be bound to a name (unless it causes bugs), and test numbers for lowering the healing, before we add a warmup limiter to this skill and make it more similar to others. Identical heal skills across the board is boring. This #2 section is based largely on the goal of maintaining class diversity, I need to test Ampul more to see if it needs fixing.

3. I think that the 25% damage increase should last less than the full 3 minutes it currently lasts, but that the skill is good for lore, and if we decrease the damage buff it will not be very worthwhile even just from GCD, much less resource costs.

4. My objection to this is based on lore, and based on the fact that staff has used Lore as a reason to maintain Cleric's Iron Chestplate before. What if instead, we made it so that the only helmets Clerics could wear were gold helmets (with the aim of making clerics pvp without helmets)? I think that would be a unique and new, lore appropriate, way to fix cleric armor numbers, and I will edit this post with the results of no-helmet cleric reductions.

 

[faredX]

Cleric has might and pretty decent armor, they don't do much melee damage but with their heals you can pretty much out melee anything. Imo smite really isn't the problem, it is ampul, might, and their tankiness.

Ampul is cleric's only heal without a warmup and if the cleric cannot get off a different type of heal because it is being interupted they can just used ampul. In my fights on the test server as a cleric it saved me probably 3 times a fight, and it causes clerics to be relatively un-killable.

Clerics do not need might. Plain and simple. They provide far too much support with their unmatched healing and survivability. The members of the party of a cleric do not need a damage bonus on top of heals that they are receiving.

Lastly their tankiness. IMO i find it ridiculous that a healer-support class can currently go head to head with melee specs and win, which they are easily able to do. I still think that they need their iron chest plate taken away.

Sidenote: only the first section of this post was intended as a reply to dsa's post.

I concur with you about the preposterous amount of healing skills they have which seems quite excessive although they are indeed a 'healer' class. Besides that I also agree on their amount of offense as 100 + 25 damage every 5 seconds + 25% damage added to their party members seems a bit exaggerated for a support class,In my opinion, It doesn't seem necessary for Clerics to have Might, as they are a 'healing' support unit not a 'What-is-this-sorcery-more-damage-unit-!?!?!?'

 

[leftovers5]

It's been awhile, but do people still see Clerics losing Might and possibly getting a hoe damage reduction?

 

[macura]

It's been awhile, but do people still see Clerics losing Might and possibly getting a hoe damage reduction?

Not hoe damage reduction, just losing might. Without might their hoe damage isn't nearly as bad.

 

[Licksterboy]

I always questioned why two classes had the same buff, obviously that isn't a bad thing (talking about might) but I always felt that beguiler should be the one to have might removed since it already has wisdom (which is more caster like to begin with). Therefore, I always asked the question, "Why does cleric deal more damage than mystic and bloodmage?" Meaning, I personally think it should be the hoe damage that is reduced, not might removed. This would allow cleric to deal more hoe damage with might.

I feel that if might is removed, then the class will drop significantly in support. Then again, I have been going back and forth with this decision... what about you others? Maybe the rest of you can persuade me to think differently.

 

[TheMrLief]

I always questioned why two classes had the same buff, obviously that isn't a bad thing (talking about might) but I always felt that beguiler should be the one to have might removed since it already has wisdom (which is more caster like to begin with). Therefore, I always asked the question, "Why does cleric deal more damage than mystic and bloodmage?" Meaning, I personally think it should be the hoe damage that is reduced, not might removed. This would allow cleric to deal more hoe damage with might.

I feel that if might is removed, then the class will drop significantly in support. Then again, I have been going back and forth with this decision... what about you others? Maybe the rest of you can persuade me to think differently.

Well I feel like seeing how they already have group heal and group invul that they don't really need might or at least lower the percent of damage it increases.

 

[leftovers5]

Well I feel like seeing how they already have group heal and group invul that they don't really need might or at least lower the percent of damage it increases.

My sentiments exactly. Removing Might would counteract the fill-all-roley-ness of Cleric as it stands.

 

[Licksterboy]

You guys are right, and with might removed from cleric, it would give players more incentive to pick another support class, like beguiler.