Suggestion Cleric Offensive/Defensive Skill Changes

[MrAwesomeShadow]

Wait, what kind of buffs would the paladin get against the DK? 1 hit and the DK is dead? An advantage is good, but the sole fact the Paladin will win is kind of unfair. So me and my axe have to be scared of a paladin with a 40dmg sword ._.

 

[xexorian]

The problem is that the inherent theme of the classes only allows for certain types to be effective against others.

The holy/unholy classes are obvious, but making deviations for the other specs vs specs is rather difficult, I've looked at it a few times already and can't make any decisive comparisons as to why they should trump another class in a system like this, due primarily to a lack of complex skillsets/mechanics (yet to be introduced).

Like the "natural" or "balanced" classes, Druid, and Geomancer, obviously use nature as their ally, or elemental power, and so corruption, like dreadknights and necromancers could beat them. However classes like Samurai, Disciple, and Bloodmage are in their own. Samurai are motivated by honor and politics. Disciples are motivated through balance and discipline, different arts of war. Bloodmages are thaumaturgy magics. Or blood magic. It's considered arcane magic in traditional DND, but it's own school of magic elsewhere, similar to vampirism stuff in Vampire the Masquerade series.

 

[Rumblestikk]

The problem is that the inherent theme of the classes only allows for certain types to be effective against others.

The holy/unholy classes are obvious, but making deviations for the other specs vs specs is rather difficult, I've looked at it a few times already and can't make any decisive comparisons as to why they should trump another class in a system like this, due primarily to a lack of complex skillsets/mechanics (yet to be introduced).

Like the "natural" or "balanced" classes, Druid, and Geomancer, obviously use nature as their ally, or elemental power, and so corruption, like dreadknights and necromancers could beat them. However classes like Samurai, Disciple, and Bloodmage are in their own. Samurai are motivated by honor and politics. Disciples are motivated through balance and discipline, different arts of war. Bloodmages are thaumaturgy magics. Or blood magic. It's considered arcane magic in traditional DND, but it's own school of magic elsewhere, similar to vampirism stuff in Vampire the Masquerade series.

Also Blood Magic is usually looked down upon as the scourge of magics.

Kinda like blood bending from Avatar.

 

[Dsawemd]

No comment on the (off topic) pokemon-esque type bonuses.

In response to cleric offensive abilities: xexo you are correct, casting a heal now effectively slows almost roots the healer. Perhaps Healers could have a skill that allows them to move while casting their next 1-2 heals.

I understand this original post (xexo's aura and various infusions) to be stackable might that adds heal aoe or additional dmg to hoe attacks on a (medium cost) switch, changed when needed. This would be awesome for clerics but not in keeping with support role.
These splash and aura heal or dmg mechanics would be more at home in a caster class (minus heals), maybe bloodmage too, but cleric has usually been a single target class and that single target focus should remain whether they heal or dmg.

You don't want a cleric buff, you want to re-spec to a medium ranged, medium melee dmg, long survivability class. Sounds like anything you recognize from HC already?

 

[xexorian]

it's not ranged based, and i don't want to respec. it's area effect based, and focuses on properly attacking or defending when you want to spend mana, to deal damage or healing, mostly healing, as I said, these bonuses have only a small buff to our survivability.

I haven't nullified any inherent flaws with clerics, they still lack mobility, for a targetable dispel, they still have invuln as a survivability cooldown. All I've done is add a method to convert mana to damage, then an additional buff to change the way that damage works.

it's more akin to how priests use chakras and mantras from the latest cataclysm changes, or various other specific class designs that revolve around this type of system. I just had the idea earlier today that would make the class more epic to play. It's rather linear and boring, as well as being about 40% underpowered compared to the new bloodmage, samurai, ninja, thief, etc. All of the other specs are getting decent buffs, I'm just saying it's time for clerics to get a radical change in their playstyle.

Having a bunch of, pardon my french, fucking single target heals with seperate cooldowns, is boring as shit and doesn't provide interesting gameplay. It's about like playing with a quarter. You can flip it over and it's either heads or tails. But all you can do is flip it over, and over. The same action. The same mechanic. Nothing different.

 

[Dragenis]

WHY CAN'T I CONNECT?!

WHAT BLACK MAGIC IS THIS

 

[MrAwesomeShadow]

WHY CAN'T I CONNECT?!

WHAT BLACK MAGIC IS THIS

Wrong thread.

 

[pinpanxxi]

Well i agree with most people that cleric dosen't need any pvp skills for they are a support class it would be weird if they became fighters in battle . It would be stupid to go 1v1 as a cleric but most likely to live by a group as you do all the healing and they fight for you.

 

[cgodmer]

cleric would never need a buff.... That is all.....

 

[lhatchy1]

cleric would never need a buff.... That is all.....

 

[Roadkill909]

Clerics are not meant for 1v1, and shouldn't have any more offensive abilities. Clerics are for support, should be in groups, and should be spending mana on healing others and not attacking. I like the idea of adding more various skills to cleric like sustained or passive talents, but these talents should focus on healing and support.

Basically, I think the main suggestion was to put a new dynamic into herocraft.

Holy Dark Neutral Other
Paladin Dreadknight Samurai Dragoon.
^example of a new combat triangle

Holy beats dark
Dark beats Neutral
Neutral beats Other
Other beats Holy

I love the idea of adding "rock-paper-scissors" gameplay to Heroes. It could be better accomplished through a third "alignment" class choice and Good/Holy, Evil/Dark, and Neutral classes. Good players get a damage bonus versus evil players during the day, evil gets a damage bonus at night, and neutral gets a higher health bonus. Experience is gained by killing players of the opposing alignment and other appropriate means. I think this is a little off topic, though, and I'm not going to start a new post to request whole classes and gameplay mechanics as big as these.