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Suggestion Cleric additional skill ( not related to ampul loss)

Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Location
US, Arizona
The cleric class has close to no defense or escape. Generally when healing you cannot sprint or jump. The invuln ability doesn't allow you to attack only walk away for 6 seconds.
cleric is defined generally as
  • Ability to defend
  • Able to heal
  • Strong defense make up for lack of power
  • Normal physical attack
I suggest clerics get a aoe minor damage ability such as:
Holy Burst: knocks enemies around you away in a 5 block radius and take 50 damage.
Light Blast: Set enemies around you(5 block radius) on fire for 3 seconds.
Group-root: Enemies in a 5 block radius are rooted in place for 2 seconds and take 50 damage.

Here are other abilities i suggest:
Reflect: When hit by a basic melee hit your attack is blown back for a 10 second duration.
 

northeaster345

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Cleric has 2 invulns and tons of heals. Add on top of that pretty good armor, and I say it has plenty of defense. It doesn't need another skill.
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Location
US, Arizona
Cleric has 2 invulns and tons of heals. Add on top of that pretty good armor, and I say it has plenty of defense. It doesn't need another skill.
The group invuln is the only practical defense, for you can attack through it. It can be dispelled as well. The single person invuln is used if you know your about to be attacked, then you pop it and run (hoping enemy doesn't have dispel).
Generally when healing you cannot sprint or jump
Armor is medium
fighting style is close combat
 

northeaster345

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
The group invuln is the only practical defense, for you can attack through it. It can be dispelled as well. The single person invuln is used if you know your about to be attacked, then you pop it and run (hoping enemy doesn't have dispel).

Pop invuln, use chant or full heal. You use the time to heal, or else you're doing it wrong
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Location
US, Arizona
Pop invuln, use chant or full heal. You use the time to heal, or else you're doing it wrong

Well the only defense we have is invuln which is easily countered. We are the slowest class in terms of speed.
I think it would be nice if we had a sort of ability the allowed for us to put at least a little distance between enemies and us.
 

what777

Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
You mean... the only counter to clerics is getting to them and taking them out fast, and then giving them an escape to make escaping even easier? They are the best healing class at the moment, they don't need to be even stronger.
 

Dsawemd

Wiki Team
Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Clerics are not fast, nor do I see them needing an AoE damage skill.

Offtopic: I would be interested to see a mystic AoE that lightly damages enemies and heals the party, sort of a healing Shock to accompany their Bolt.
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Location
US, Arizona
You mean... the only counter to clerics is getting to them and taking them out fast
once we run out of invuln (which is used to take time to heal in your opinion) then what? Our heals are canceled by most spells (most have warm-ups). Cleric is (imo) the slowest class due to its abilities inducing slowness.
Clerics are not fast, nor do I see them needing an AoE damage skill.
Give your reasoning please or don't post useless information.
 

Dsawemd

Wiki Team
Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Give your reasoning please or don't post useless information.
Ok I will spell it out for you. This information is not useless, and I did not not expect to have to explain it in such detail.

1. Slow: Clerics have always been heavily armored, at least the Cleric through HC lens. As a result, their strategy is pretty much the only healer strategy that does not require about 75% kiting (replace "kiting" with "position control" for disciple). They can take a hit. The class is balanced around being hit more than other healers. You say your heals are canceled by most spells? No idea what that means, there are 3 silences and several CC moves in the game... Anyways. Cleric's survivability is through its solid single target heals, group damage mitigation skills, and solid armor, NOT through mobility. You need to realize you are suggesting a new direction for the class, which I doubt you realize fully yet.

2. AoE damage skill - There are two things I would like to mention. First, I said I do not see them needing one in current implementation, because clerics perform competitively at both lower level pvp (they are easy for new players to not lose with) and higher level pvp (they are, in my and others opinions, the highest win %, and most difficult-to-combat healer among the best pvp match ups in the server). Therefore, if such an AoE damage spell was implemented, some other aspect of the class would have to be changed, or the AoE would have to have a large mana cost to the point that the Cleric has to choose between dealing mediocre damage and mediocre heals, or light damage and stronger heals.
Second, I believe that the AoE damage direction is the wrong way to go for Cleric, because Cleric plays an important role in being THE healing class. Clerics deal less damage than other healers for a reason, there is an appeal to some players to a more heal-centric healer. If we were to change Cleric to deal more damage, it would be less unique of a class, as well as requiring the re-balancing of other classic Cleric attributes have been declared "here to stay" by Kainzo.

My suggestion would be to suggest what overall NEW direction you are interested in seeing Cleric take, and see how Kainzo/staff/community respond. What will NOT be met with success is suggesting multiple major alterations to a competitive spec without also mentioning what the trade-off will be (what would cleric lose for increased speed or an AoE damage? less heals? smite does 85 damage? more difficult mana management?).

TL: DR Clerics are slow in lore and have no AoE damage skill currently. Since general consensus and community pvp experiments have shown Cleric to be a strongly competitive class choice, if we were to make them faster or provide them with more damaging skills, changing of other classic Cleric attributes (strong single target heals, strong mitigation) would likely be required.
edit: I suspect Cleric tweaking is nearing perfection for current balance, but we will see what all these new ideas bring to the spec.
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Location
US, Arizona
I'm not focusing on the damage aspect here if you read my suggestion they all have to do with disruption of enemy movement. Rather this or have it so our heals do not slow us :/
 

what777

Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
I'm not focusing on the damage aspect here if you read my suggestion they all have to do with disruption of enemy movement. Rather this or have it so our heals do not slow us :/

That is the trade of for the high healing... ever heard of pro's and cons? If a class only has pro's it is not good...
 

macura

Diamond
Joined
May 2, 2012
Clerics are not fast, nor do I see them needing an AoE damage skill.

Offtopic: I would be interested to see a mystic AoE that lightly damages enemies and heals the party, sort of a healing Shock to accompany their Bolt.
If there was a skill like that it would go to bloodmages, they harm others to heal themselves/their party members. It just wouldn't really work with lore.

One thing that mystic could possibly receive is a skill that heals the party(would have to not heal themselves or this wouldn't really work) for a % of damage that the mystic takes for a short period of time. Kind of like an aoe healing shieldreflect. If the mystic gets bursted down to almost no hp (which they do frequently because they wear leather) if they had the skill active then their party members would gain health from this. Although this also borders a bloodmage still because it is taking damage in order to heal, it fits mystic better because they are not doing the damage to themselves. It is kind of like how when a tree dies it recycles its nutrients back into the ecosystem. The only difference is that here the mystic does not die, but is dying. It would be an annoying skill to have if the mystic could only utilize it by dying.
 

Eldrylars

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Location
Dragon through ...
Hello Mons!

I have played more hours into Cleric then anyone else on the map.
I know the class very well and I also know other classes very well and I can tell you that it would throw off Clerics balance way to much to add any of those listed skills.

I will explain in short as I don't have the time the talk a lot but since I have more hours then anyone regarding PvP with this class on Bastion that I will expect you to believe I know what I am talking about.

Clerics when played properly can beat any class in a 1v1, yes even a Sammy.
Invulns have two purposes. One is to get in a lot of damage while your opponent is unable to damage you. The real use for them is so you can heal without being interrupted back to full health.
As a Cleric you are unlikely going to be able to "run away" from most classes. I understand that this is what you desire, but giving Clerics any type of crowd control or slows will throw the balance off tremendously. At this time Clerics can kill anything if played correctly and more then half of the classes are already at a large disadvantage against a Cleric.

I love new skills and attempting to find new strategies but this would not be good for our class.

As for help with your desire to run away there are four things you can do you up your survival rate.

1 - Use the terrain. If you can manage to get up some height you can spin about and attack the guy on your tail with a hoe and a smite attack which will cause a knockback effect give you a lot of room to heal/run

2- Heal! Bandage will not break sprint! Use bandage while sprinting, it will slow you for 1 second but then you sprint will resume and you will have another 100hp of time to survive. One Ampul is back you can toss it in front of you for additional healing.

3- Use Speed Potions! They are not expensive and if you level Alchemist you can make them easily and by the dozens.

4- Use a knockback sword! They are not that expansive to get and can help a lot, especially in the first suggestion. Train as a Smith and you can use Diamond and Iron swords for better durability.


Goodluck out there and /arena join a few hundred times. You will eventually learn all the tricks.
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Location
US, Arizona
Hello Mons!

I have played more hours into Cleric then anyone else on the map.
I know the class very well and I also know other classes very well and I can tell you that it would throw off Clerics balance way to much to add any of those listed skills.

I will explain in short as I don't have the time the talk a lot but since I have more hours then anyone regarding PvP with this class on Bastion that I will expect you to believe I know what I am talking about.

Clerics when played properly can beat any class in a 1v1, yes even a Sammy.
Invulns have two purposes. One is to get in a lot of damage while your opponent is unable to damage you. The real use for them is so you can heal without being interrupted back to full health.
As a Cleric you are unlikely going to be able to "run away" from most classes. I understand that this is what you desire, but giving Clerics any type of crowd control or slows will throw the balance off tremendously. At this time Clerics can kill anything if played correctly and more then half of the classes are already at a large disadvantage against a Cleric.

I love new skills and attempting to find new strategies but this would not be good for our class.

As for help with your desire to run away there are four things you can do you up your survival rate.

1 - Use the terrain. If you can manage to get up some height you can spin about and attack the guy on your tail with a hoe and a smite attack which will cause a knockback effect give you a lot of room to heal/run

2- Heal! Bandage will not break sprint! Use bandage while sprinting, it will slow you for 1 second but then you sprint will resume and you will have another 100hp of time to survive. One Ampul is back you can toss it in front of you for additional healing.

3- Use Speed Potions! They are not expensive and if you level Alchemist you can make them easily and by the dozens.

4- Use a knockback sword! They are not that expansive to get and can help a lot, especially in the first suggestion. Train as a Smith and you can use Diamond and Iron swords for better durability.


Goodluck out there and /arena join a few hundred times. You will eventually learn all the tricks.
Thanks for the helpful feedback ill take that into consideration. I still however believe the cleric should have a more defensive skill to contribute to its lore.
I am very fond of two class types. One is being the tanky-support, the other is a ranged type. I just felt clerics are lacking defense in a close combat area.
In the future maybe it can trade off some healing for defense to better fit its "lore"
 

Dsawemd

Wiki Team
Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
1. I am very fond of two class types. One is being the tanky-support, the other is a ranged type. I just felt clerics are lacking defense in a close combat area.
2. In the future maybe it can trade off some healing for defense to better fit its "lore"
i added the numbers.

1. Tanky-support is Cleric all over! Ranged would be a non-pyro caster or Ranger. Ranged healer would be BM.
2. Healing IS cleric lore. Also, they have amazing mitigation, which is another word for defense or survivability. I think you should pay/ask a mastered cleric to teach you a bit about your spec in-game.
 

leftovers5

Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Location
USA
As others have said, I could see a skill like this added for Mystic or Bloodmage. But not cleric at this time.
 
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