Suggestion Change how attributes affect armor

[macura]

Currently the way that attributes work(or will work) is that your armor is based on attributes, not your spec. I believe that this is odd because it forces specs like paladin into putting many of their points into an attribute in order to serve their intended purpose. I believe that armor should instead start where it currently is, and then have the possibility to be increased. Default armor for each spec should be based on the spec not solely on attributes.

 

[Dakinara]

I actually prefer the attribute method, IF things are balanced so that, hey, if I want to be a paladin in leather armor so I can do great damage or healing, etc, it works out. It sounds weird from a lore perspective I agree but it will make individuality of specs so much more fun than on live.

To meet half way, I previously recommended that attribute diminishing returns be based on the number of points raised and not total attribute score. That way, a paladin for example could start at +10 endurance, while a wizard starting at -5 or whatever would have a much harder time reaching the same armor levels. Right now the wizzy has a slightly harder time getting there but not much since very little total point investment is required to raise attributes up to +10 or so.

Also, do note that the system still favors melees getting better armor, as endurance will also increase stamina regen. Im sure the new system could cause some balance issues for sure (would a disciple in full armor be op? no idea but i can see endurance being a very valuable stat to them), but personally i am willing to have some funky balance for awhile to increase the diversity of play styles attributes will bring. I mean we have lived with dragoons forever which, from a pure ganking pvp perspective, are stupidly OP.

 

[Kainzo]

Currently the way that attributes work(or will work) is that your armor is based on attributes, not your spec. I believe that this is odd because it forces specs like paladin into putting many of their points into an attribute in order to serve their intended purpose. I believe that armor should instead start where it currently is, and then have the possibility to be increased. Default armor for each spec should be based on the spec not solely on attributes.

You may be a bit misinformed. We'll enlighten you.

Certain specs that we believe should wear plate armor will have a bonus to Endurance when switching to that class.
The gap for wearing better armor will be far less than that of a low-armor class, ie rogue/mage.

Rogue may start with +5 endurance.
Paladin may start with +15 endurance.

In addition to endurance requirements to WEAR armor and move efficiently certain armor will have other requirements, such as CONS/STR, etc.

We won't be dictating the required armor sets to each class/spec.

To meet half way, I previously recommended that attribute diminishing returns be based on the number of points raised and not total attribute score. That way, a paladin for example could start at +10 endurance, while a wizard starting at -5 or whatever would have a much harder time reaching the same armor levels. Right now the wizzy has a slightly harder time getting there but not much since very little total point investment is required to raise attributes up to +10 or so.

This will probably need to happen in some fashion.

 

[macura]

You may be a bit misinformed. We'll enlighten you.

Certain specs that we believe should wear plate armor will have a bonus to Endurance when switching to that class.
The gap for wearing better armor will be far less than that of a low-armor class, ie rogue/mage.

Rogue may start with +5 endurance.
Paladin may start with +15 endurance.

In addition to endurance requirements to WEAR armor and move efficiently certain armor will have other requirements, such as CONS/STR, etc.

We won't be dictating the required armor sets to each class/spec.




This will probably need to happen in some fashion.

I was indeed misinformed. I was told that without putting points into endurance as a berzerker i would be able to wear 2 pieces of leather which confused the hell out of me. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Kainzo]

I was indeed misinformed. I was told that without putting points into endurance as a berzerker i would be able to wear 2 pieces of leather which confused the hell out of me. Thanks for the clarification.

The equipment weight is still in design, I'll update the journal with what we have so far to bring some clarity - it could still be changing though.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

I was indeed misinformed. I was told that without putting points into endurance as a berzerker i would be able to wear 2 pieces of leather which confused the hell out of me. Thanks for the clarification.

Well, yeh, that's still right actually. As Kainzo said, Warrior specs are going to start with a relatively high Endurance and Constitution score. If you're a level 1 Berserker with 10 Endurance and you put 0 points into Endurance from 1 to 65, you're not going to be able to wear heavy armor. On a similar note, Healer specs are going to start off with a reasonably high Wisdom score. If I start off at a level 1 Cleric and put 0 points into Wisdom from 1-65, I'm going to expect to have really shitty heals.

At the end of the day, Attributes won't make TOO much of a difference with some classes, but would give a lot of creativity to other classes. I could be close minded, but I feel like all caster classes are going to have relatively the same builds, because they're useless without high intellect and a high mana pool. While it's fun to imagine Wizards in iron armor with 1,200 HP who have high agility, it's just not practical. While it is likely possible to get your wizard up there, it will have next to no Mana pool/Mana regen. Most importantly, it's intellect would likely be putrid, meaning their damage will be unimpressive. Great survivability and mobility? Sure. Yet when your class has something like 8-9 offensive skills, it would be foolish not to use them to your full potential.

At the end of the day, I think people are going to realize that some classes only have 1 effective build, while most others have options, but will pick the BEST option. There's only a small handful of classes where you can make 2 or 3 different builds and make it feel like a new class each time. That's just my opinion though. Either way, I'm exciting for attributes.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

snip

There needs to be a *Pessimistic* rating.

 

[Dakinara]

At the end of the day, I think people are going to realize that some classes only have 1 effective build, while most others have options, but will pick the BEST option. There's only a small handful of classes where you can make 2 or 3 different builds and make it feel like a new class each time. That's just my opinion though. Either way, I'm exciting for attributes.

I agree with the overall assessment that caster classes would be questionable to not invest in intellect / wisdom, but there is at least some choice now. You could choose to invest less and have lower damage but also have chain armor, or higher hit points, or even melee somewhat. Also, should you choose to be a highly casting focused caster now, you can sacrifice all melee damage, or health, or other resources, to have really great mana, spell dmg / healing, and mana regen. It is awesome playing on test and actually just fighting with spells and not having to melee because it takes 5 minutes to regenerate your mana back.

Finally, i suppose its possible that some caster builds could work as melee focused that currently are not, just based on utility spells of class. Will be fun to try out at any rate. Biggest problem i see is protection armor - since it reduces left click melee damage so much, and with no melee based abilities to counter it somewhat. Although based on some skill descriptions on test, it sounds like melee abilities may be reduced by armor again?

 

[Danda]

The point in this method is to allow additional customization in classes. It gives classes like the paladin the ability to sacrifice a bit of their tank to improve in other areas such as their melee damage or healing ability. Obviously as Kainzo said the base stats of each class will be different but you will still need to put points into endurance if you want to wear the best armour.