Suggestion Beguiler Buff - Fool Foes

[Dsawemd]

Beguiler is the trickster class.

Track and Deathmark currently have no counterplay except to hide or fight.

/skill Fool Foes - Applies a Buff to all members of a Beguilers Party within 10 blocks. The buff lasts 1-2 hours, and it directs both Tracks and Deathmarks on affected Players to the coordinates (0,0).

This would be used to counter tracking classes during PvP chases or hunts, and fits Beguilers lore and new support-control direction.

 

[JupiterRome]

IS there even any attempt to put it in this direction? some Major nerfs are needed and more if this was added

 

[Dsawemd]

IS there even any attempt to put it in this direction? some Major nerfs are needed and more if this was added

Think of it this way: If you suggest a Nuke Skill for Beguiler, it will NEVER be implemented. The class has enough nukes. If we suggest cool Support-Control Mage Skills then the transition to Support-Control Mage will be possible, and we can lower the nukes. But until we have cool new support-control skills you are correct, the transition will not be very possible.

edit: and yes, a goal of future suggestions is to increase the Support Control Mage aspects of Beguiler over their current playstyle. Ask Kainzo.

 

[Trazil]

take out fireball and pulse, neither of them support beguiler's tricky lore, and replace them with other damage skills with about maybe the same or a little less dmg

 

[JupiterRome]

Think of it this way: If you suggest a Nuke Skill for Beguiler, it will NEVER be implemented. The class has enough nukes. If we suggest cool Support-Control Mage Skills then the transition to Support-Control Mage will be possible, and we can lower the nukes. But until we have cool new support-control skills you are correct, the transition will not be very possible.

edit: and yes, a goal of future suggestions is to increase the Support Control Mage aspects of Beguiler over their current playstyle. Ask Kainzo.

How long has that been said though? I'm not going to go off that because if you look how many times and how long has that been said, lets go off current beguiler

 

[Kodyyodk]

This is a really good idea.
"Track and Deathmark currently have no counterplay except to hide or fight. "
Oh isn't that the truth.
RIP Lostsouls

 

[Reverend_Creeper]

I agree that skills such as Fool Foes should be added(also would create a market for tracking immunity) but another thing I have always wondered about is in regards to the accuracy of track. A rogue wearing light armor can be tracked to the same accuracy as a warrior trudging around in full armor. I think that the accuracy should depend on the class or equip weight of a player rather than a default that every class gets tracked to the same accuracy(might be randomized within a certain distance not sure, but I believe each class has the same algorithm). I would like to go further having certain biomes being more accurate(footsteps in swamps would be more distinguishable than grasslands, forests have broken twigs from someone traveling through it) but I could imagine that being extremely annoying/difficult to impossible to code. I believe that tracking should have some sort of actual countermeasure, maybe a skill like fool foes for beguiler, a disciple has a passive that senses enemies tracking them as do ninjas, warriors could feel killing intent or something when the one tracking gets close or a false trail skill for rogue classes. While tracking is a large part of herocraft now I feel that it can be abused as a way to consistently target lower levels (not only lost souls) who are just doing their own thing over and over again. If the skills are given at an early level and aren't too good at throwing off tracks they should be added. I would not like to have tracking be made completely useless due to the skills.

 

[mikehk]

seems good!
new beguiler skill set:

lv 1:
standard stuff

lv1:
BlindingBall:
damage: 95+1.25 per int
throws a snowball at same velocity as icebolt, and beguiles for .1 seconds, throwing them in one random direction, and causing nausea for .1 seconds (would end up like the end of quiveringpalm, blinding for about half a second due to nether portal spazz)
cd: 6

lv 5:
pulse:
same as now (early 2 dps skills allow some defense against ganks and ease of leveling)

lv 10:
summonfood:
same as now

lv 15:
beguile:
same as now

lv 20:
clarity:
same as now

lv 25:
piggify:
same as now

lv 30:
suggested skill above ^
cd: 5 mins
reagent: clock

lv 35:
quantumleap:
same as now

lv 40
quantumswitch:
reorients fight, tp'ing you to the exact opposite side of the target, so you're 8 blocks from a person, you target them, you're tp'd 8 blocks through them. you're 3 blocks from someone, you're now 3 blocks on the other side of them. provides chase/escape
cd: 30 seconds
range: 7+.1 per charisma blocks

lv 45:
splendor:
same as now

lv 50:
teleport:
same as now

lv 55:
twist:
spins the target 180 degrees, hindering their movement, and dealing 35+.5 per int damage
cd: 6
range: 5+.125 per charisma blocks

lv 60:
banish:
fully incapitates the target for 4+.05 per charisma seconds. purges buffs based wisdom, same scaling as chakra for debuffs (incapitate IS stun, blind, nausea, and invuln)
cd: 35 seconds
range: 6 blocks
warmup: 1 second

lv 65:
masspiggify:
same as now

with this skillset, beguiler has less damage (sorry diehard easy beguiler fans), great escape, more CC, more trickery, more supportish, and more skills in general. any thoughts?

 

[Dsawemd]

How long has that been said though? I'm not going to go off that because if you look how many times and how long has that been said, lets go off current beguiler

Kainzo expressed an interest in changing Beguiler for 5.30, the goal may have been accelerated by the server issues that PlagueBomb has been causing.

DIRECTLY ABOVE -dsa

I agree with this skillset as a possible implementation of Beguiler as a Support-Control Mage while retaining some of the skills that are unique to the current class. Some of the damage could be made up by adding a small damage effect to skills like Twist.

 

[w0nd3rb0y]

4 second stun? Simple answer, no.

 

[huntmoak]

Would it be possible to turn an enemy's vision negative? Like that white, blue thing? and what if blindingball became Delude?

 

[Dsawemd]

4 second stun? Simple answer, no.

edit: Banish gives the target Invuln, see MikeHk's post below.

 

[mikehk]

4 second stun? Simple answer, no.

its not a stun... banish (in all other RPG games, and the way I sugested it) is when someone is 100% disabled, and is unable to be attacked or take damage. they're compeltely out of the fight for the duration, and 1v1, would provide very little benefits other than escape considering short range.

 

[Ultanian]

seems good!
new beguiler skill set:

lv 1:
standard stuff

lv1:
BlindingBall:
damage: 95+1.25 per int
throws a snowball at same velocity as icebolt, and beguiles for .1 seconds, throwing them in one random direction, and causing nausea for .1 seconds (would end up like the end of quiveringpalm, blinding for about half a second due to nether portal spazz)
cd: 6

lv 5:
pulse:
same as now (early 2 dps skills allow some defense against ganks and ease of leveling)

lv 10:
summonfood:
same as now

lv 15:
beguile:
same as now

lv 20:
clarity:
same as now

lv 25:
piggify:
same as now

lv 30:
suggested skill above ^
cd: 5 mins
reagent: clock

lv 35:
quantumleap:
same as now

lv 40
quantumswitch:
reorients fight, tp'ing you to the exact opposite side of the target, so you're 8 blocks from a person, you target them, you're tp'd 8 blocks through them. you're 3 blocks from someone, you're now 3 blocks on the other side of them. provides chase/escape
cd: 30 seconds
range: 7+.1 per charisma blocks

lv 45:
splendor:
same as now

lv 50:
teleport:
same as now

lv 55:
twist:
spins the target 180 degrees, hindering their movement, and dealing 35+.5 per int damage
cd: 6
range: 5+.125 per charisma blocks

lv 60:
banish:
fully incapitates the target for 4+.05 per charisma seconds. purges buffs based wisdom, same scaling as chakra for debuffs (incapitate IS stun, blind, nausea, and invuln)
cd: 35 seconds
range: 6 blocks
warmup: 1 second

lv 65:
masspiggify:
same as now

with this skillset, beguiler has less damage (sorry diehard easy beguiler fans), great escape, more CC, more trickery, more supportish, and more skills in general. any thoughts?

I love how clock is the counter to compass, works out so well. Adds another reason to have gold again too

 

[Ultanian]

Would it be possible to turn an enemy's vision negative? Like that white, blue thing? and what if blindingball became Delude?

Might be in 1.8, not sure. If you use spectator mode on a enderman everything is inverted, they might be able to recreate that effect on HC somehow.

 

[0xNaomi]

I agree that skills such as Fool Foes should be added(also would create a market for tracking immunity) but another thing I have always wondered about is in regards to the accuracy of track. A rogue wearing light armor can be tracked to the same accuracy as a warrior trudging around in full armor. I think that the accuracy should depend on the class or equip weight of a player rather than a default that every class gets tracked to the same accuracy(might be randomized within a certain distance not sure, but I believe each class has the same algorithm). I would like to go further having certain biomes being more accurate(footsteps in swamps would be more distinguishable than grasslands, forests have broken twigs from someone traveling through it) but I could imagine that being extremely annoying/difficult to impossible to code. I believe that tracking should have some sort of actual countermeasure, maybe a skill like fool foes for beguiler, a disciple has a passive that senses enemies tracking them as do ninjas, warriors could feel killing intent or something when the one tracking gets close or a false trail skill for rogue classes. While tracking is a large part of herocraft now I feel that it can be abused as a way to consistently target lower levels (not only lost souls) who are just doing their own thing over and over again. If the skills are given at an early level and aren't too good at throwing off tracks they should be added. I would not like to have tracking be made completely useless due to the skills.

Filtering by class is doable, but armor is impractical.
Just hold it in your hotbar and only wear it when you're attacked.

 

[jazza411]

I think people with beguilers need to think of more than skills like beguile. One of my own ideas is the beguiler places a clone NPC that will explode upon hit while the actual player is stealthed.

 

[Dsawemd]

/skill Dance, Biatch! - The Beguiler's Target will take 250 damage at the end of 10 seconds UNLESS they move enough total block distance (30?), then they are spared the damage.
Duration is LOWERED by CHA, Damage increased by INT.

Like Rupture, this skill is designed to have control by changing incentives for movement. Unlike Rupture, you only take damage if you do not move.
This can be used prior to root cc's to attempt to land the Dance damage, but /skill Beguile would probably break the DoT pretty easily.

 

[Ultanian]

/skill Dance, Biatch! - The Beguiler's Target will take 250 damage at the end of 10 seconds UNLESS they move enough total block distance (30?), then they are spared the damage.
Duration is LOWERED by CHA, Damage increased by INT.

Like Rupture, this skill is designed to have control by changing incentives for movement. Unlike Rupture, you only take damage if you do not move.
This can be used prior to root cc's to attempt to land the Dance damage, but /skill Beguile would probably break the DoT pretty easily.

Yes please omg this would be the best skill of all time

 

[devotedworker]

IS there even any attempt to put it in this direction? some Major nerfs are needed and more if this was added

This looks like a simple enough idea, and it if it was implememnted it would be pretty nice