Suggestion Base chance to dodge-attacks.

[Eldrylars]

The base-dodge chances would only include melee swings. Not spell hits (though melee ones could happen)

I really like this because it would make some fights random (or more random) than others... chance of failure, chance of hits, etc.

This has been a major battle in many games. It's an absolute love/hate fight from what I have seen.
On one side you want things to be skilled, slowing down some perhaps and giving more options but by making it random and adding a random chance in you are taking away from the skill aspect and leaving a lot of fights up to chance. Another epic battle I have seen again and again is the one between fast paced combat and slow timed combat, and it's the same story. Completely love/hate.
I would warn that it's a dirty road and regardless of the final decision people will be angry and people will be happy because it's two totally different ways for a game system to run.

I would suggest that you try to take as much randomness out of it as you can while you still add more skill(timing is important but with Minecraft's system timing is too messed up) and paced combat.

Whatever you decide to work on, goodluck!
You are in for a bumpy ride

 

[Eldrylars]

I would expand on my suggested and suggest adding more skills like backflip. Side jump, leap forward, shield bash(small knockback.)
Things that give the players more mobility/ability to try to skillfully time their dodges. Parry'ing with a sword could have different effects as well based on classes.

Have parrying drain stamina while using it but at the same time have it drain stamina from a blocked attack.

Ideas that add to the skills of the players without making it random would be my personal target.

 

[XenZan]

I want to come up with a system to have the ability to dodge-attacks or if you want to think of it in another way, your left-click spams have a chance to 'miss'.

I really like the sound of this. I'd actually found myself wishing something like this was already in play, but didn't know if it was doable given the coding. If this is something that can be done, I agree it will add some depth to combat, more than just spam-click.

One of my biggest gripes with Herocraft is that a tanky paladin can move just as fast as a ninja. With this I can see how rogue class can get the "agility" they deserve with a high dodge chance.

My thoughts exactly. The guy in full armor is just as fast as any other class, naked or not. I feel like there should be some measure to reflect the agility of classes that deserve it and this may be it, short of moifying base speeds of certain classes. More armor generally means less mobility, and while some of this is covered by actual mobility skills, less armor genrally means you get clobbered one-on-one xD

At any rate, I like the idea.

Edit: As far as what Eldry said, I agree that too much randomness detracts from the overall experience, but in a game system where "dodging" is virtually impossible (in terms of melee attacks), I don't think it's too much randomness to apply a small dodge-chance effect to classes that it makes sense for. Due to the nature of spam-click-combat, no amount of backflips and siderolls will save you from being struck by left-click spam. It may delay it, but as soon as you reenter range, it picks up right where it left off.

 

[Arturec]

Inb4 Jax Rework. (LoL Reference if you don't understand)

 

[Weikauno]

I think it would be good to have dodge/miss for skills that auto aim people, but not the vanilla melee attacks and manual projectiles, because you can already dodge those with vanilla skills(moving around)

 

[Haxnn]

Using the same kind of mechanics, could something along the lines of critical stikes be added aswell?

 

[Dsawemd]

On Topic: Cool, dodge chance is a nice addition and will make pvp more complex for sure.

OffTopic: Long ago, on a server now defunct, I saw HeroesSkills that had effects based on where the target was hit, using player hitboxes, no player side mods involved. There was a bow class that only slowed with an activated slow skill AND shooting at a player's legs. Hitting someone in the head with a fireball or thrown/skillshot weapon did more damage. There was a swordsman class that could extend the duration of it's disarm by hitting the enemy's arms/torso.

Very cool idea to explore, and could be coupled with dodge chances for some excellent implementations (Ninja could have higher dodge chance in their extremities, Dragon could have 100% hit chance for an enemy's Torso, etc.).

 

[MonsTheSexy]

I want to come up with a system to have the ability to dodge-attacks or if you want to think of it in another way, your left-click spams have a chance to 'miss'.

Here's the reasoning:

1. Increase and deepen combat, so we can have skills increase / decrease miss chance (similar to Curse)
2. Possible abilities triggered after a successful dodge or something similar.
3. Melee/casters less dependent on just swinging their weapon and more on planning and using skills.
4. Weapon stats that will increase chance-to-hit or miss (if its cursed)
5. Attributes later on that will affect your ability to dodge incoming attacks.

Example: Ninja has a base chance of 10-15% to dodge attacks. Paladin could have 5% - not when I state "attacks" I mean left-click melee swings.


Let me know what you think.

To be honest this would lessen the realism of this game. I ,most of all, hate those rpgs where you have a low attack level and you sit there getting dirct hits seeing blood and it misses ... wtf. You already have dodges by actually moving your character. We should just stay with being able to block (im not sure if it actually works because i use a hoe).

 

[Danielcan]

Yeah healer dodge skill must be God's favor it gives you holy power to dodge attack by %10 chance.

'' Sarcasm''

 

[Dsawemd]

Yeah healer dodge skill must be God's favor it gives you holy power to dodge attack by %10 chance.

'' Sarcasm''

not a bad thought for a healer/buffer defensive skill

 

[Delfofthebla]

I want to come up with a system to have the ability to dodge-attacks or if you want to think of it in another way, your left-click spams have a chance to 'miss'.

Here's the reasoning:

1. Increase and deepen combat, so we can have skills increase / decrease miss chance (similar to Curse)
2. Possible abilities triggered after a successful dodge or something similar.
3. Melee/casters less dependent on just swinging their weapon and more on planning and using skills.
4. Weapon stats that will increase chance-to-hit or miss (if its cursed)
5. Attributes later on that will affect your ability to dodge incoming attacks.

Example: Ninja has a base chance of 10-15% to dodge attacks. Paladin could have 5% - not when I state "attacks" I mean left-click melee swings.

Let me know what you think.

To be honest, I'm pretty against this idea. I understand that randomized stuff like this is really prevelant in RPG's, but I really don't like the way that it functions in Herocraft, or Minecraft in general.


Stuff like Dodge chances, Miss chances, and Critical Hit chances definitely give off the impression of adding depth to a combat system, and in some cases, they do. But for Herocraft, I think the actuality is far from the impression.

I personally enjoy my games being "skill based" rather than RNG based. If I go into an "evenly matched" fight against another player and I'm the one with the better skill level, then I should win. Plain and simple. For me, losing a fight because I missed attacks over and over or because they got a lucky dodge is one of the crappiest feelings in the world.

Unlike most MMORPG's, Herocraft revolves around melee attacks. Games like World of Warcraft, Vanguard, or EQ II all have dodge chances, miss chances, and critical hits, but those games do not focus entirely around auto attacking. EQ I had a bit more emphasis on it, but it did not focus on PVP as much as later MMO's did. In these MMO's, there is a very large emphasis on skill usage that determines the strength of your character. The RNG is a minor part of the system.

Herocraft does not function this way. Yes, there is a decent amount of skill usage, but a lot of the skill usage is only a means to get more left clicks out. Everything is based around "auto attacks" on Herocraft. Adding in randomization in Herocraft is like adding in RNG to WoW's skill system. Imagine if every time you activated a skill, there was a chance that it didn't work "just cause". Yeah...I doubt that would fly. (EDIT: I know that certain skills can still be dodged in WoW, but I wanted to emphasize that the "feeling" of having your left clicks miss would be similar to watching your skills not work for no reason when you activated them.)

Additionally, the RNG in these games is perfected to the extreme. I have no doubt that a 20% chance to crit in WoW is a 20% chance to crit. But in Herocraft? Not so much. Some may not want to hear this, but from what I've seen Herocraft hasn't ever had the best RNG mechanics. 10% chance is not a 10% chance. It's more like a 10% chance to be 70% chance for the next few seconds. There have been tweaks to the system from what I've heard, but nothing ever seems to improve with it. Curse and Blackjack are not accurate in their percentages to trigger. Maybe this is Minecraft's fault, maybe it's Bukkit's fault, maybe it's the Herocraft's network's fault, maybe it's Herocraft's coders fault, who knows. I certainly have no idea, but I do know that something isn't right with it, and until it is fixed, I can't really approve of adding in anymore RNG to the server. Even if it is improved, I still don't think I'd like to see this added.


I hate to be such a naysayer in all this, but I really don't think this idea will turn out as well as some people are wanting it to. It will be a pain to experience, it will be a pain to balance, and it will be a pain to implement a proper RNG system that works with it.

 

[Kainzo]

Minecraft's combat, in general, is fucking terrible.

 

[Delfofthebla]

Minecraft's combat, in general, is fucking terrible.

Agreed. But somehow Heroes manages to make it enjoyable, and that's why I'm here.

 

[kirinelf]

Minecraft's combat, in general, is fucking terrible.

And yet everyone loves it. xD Probably because

Agreed. But somehow Heroes manages to make it enjoyable, and that's why I'm here.

Although even without Heroes, people STILL love PvP in Minecraft for an unfathomable reason.