Suggestion Bards - Worst support skills?

[PernixPike]

Recently I've taken a look at some of Bards support skills, such as Manasong, and Warsong. These skills are comparable to Might/Wisdom from other classes, but are far worse.

Mana:
Manasong : 100% increased mana regen : 8% mana : Lasts 15 seconds
Beguiler's Wisdom : 80% increased mana regen : Cost of 11% mana : Lasts 180 seconds

Despite the fact that Bard's Wisdom is slightly more powerful, the duration makes it much less useful than the Beguilers version. Next is Might.

Damage:
Warsong : 25% increased damage : 4 stam and 8% mana : Lasts 15 seconds
Beguiler's Might : 25% increased damage : 9% mana : Lasts 180 seconds
Cleric's Might : 25% increased damage : 15% mana : Lasts 300 seconds

Bard also has a completely inferior damage buff compared to Cleric and Beguiler. Considering Bard is the main buff oriented support class, I don't understand why they give the worst buffs. Bard does have Quicken/Accelerando, but this is only slightly fast than sprint jumping and also breaks on damage. Hopefully Bards skills can be made on par with Cleric's and Beguiler's, or the others nerfed to a similar level as bard.

If anyone else has input, feel free to post.

@ShizzDawgg, @TheMrLief, @PewPewPewLasers, @parkerjdude, @Keffalump, @dils1

 

[teddytazer]

A Bard casting Might makes his damage how high? u think 15secs of 100+ damage per hit is not enough?

 

[c12095]

A Bard casting Might makes his damage how high? u think 15secs of 100+ damage per hit is not enough?

Music Disk do somewhere around 70 damage from what I was told.

So 70x.25=17.5 bonus damage

30+17.5=87.5 damage

 

[teddytazer]

Thats not bad at all. Hell its nearly 2x a dreadknights damage.

 

[malmenca]

Wielding a jukebox and using Warsong/Might puts the damage at 80. It is certainly not enough.
Jukebox: 64 dmg


As for Manasong(Weak-ass name btw)/ Wisdom, because mana regen ticks every 5 seconds, you only get two iterations of the extra mana regen, unless you are VERY good at timing it or happen to be lucky.

So ^^this^^ means that I could spend 10 mana to get 5 more mana regen for two ticks, which isn't any extra mana regen at all.

For example, you have 50 mana, you wait 10 seconds and have 60 mana
you have 50 mana, you use wisdom, drop down to 40 mana and after 10 seconds u have 60 mana.

 

[malmenca]

Also, HealingSong/Chakra is a 50hp heal with a 10 second cooldown. It's use is negligible.

 

[c12095]

Thats not bad at all. Hell its nearly 2x a dreadknights damage.

Your missing the point teddy, this post is based off the request that a Bard should be able to support his party members at least as much as a Beguiler or a Cleric could, seeing as the Bard is meant to be a major support class.

As for your post on DK damage, first off it doesn't belong here, however i'll show you whats wrong with your assumption.

lets start off with the Dreadknights.

Max Health of a DK - 1090

Auto Attack of a DK - 49

Bash - 95 damage at max level

Harmtouch - 340 damage

Decay - 196 damage over 21 seconds
SoulLeech - 150 damage over 18 seconds
Empathy - Max 192 damage
Now for the Bards

Auto Attack of a Bard - 70 (Un-buffed)

Max Health of a Bard - 836

Kick - 67 damage, 5 second silence

Warsong - Bonus 25% damage (17.5 damage bonus)

BoastfulBellow - 80 damage, 10 second CD with a warmup, 10 second CD

MelodicBinding - 70 damage with a slow, has a warmup, 20 second CD

Voidsong - 85 damage, 3 second silence, has a warmup, 20 second CD

Ok so lets add together these damages

Dreadknight

95(Bash) + 196(Decay over 21 seconds) + 150(SoulLeech over 18 seconds) + 192(Empathy) = 633 damage from spells minus Harmtouch. With Harmtouch you hit an extra 340 so 973 damage, here alone, you have already overkilled the bard. Also, this is without Auto attacks, however over the length of 21 seconds (End time of Decay) I would be willing to bet that the DK is able to hit at least 7-10 auto attacks (From experience). So lets do 7, just to keep to on the low side. An extra 343 damage ontop of the 973 so, 1316 damage.

Bard

67(Kick) + 80x2(BoastfulBellow cast twice, matching the Decay timer of 21 seconds) + 70(MelodicBinding) + 85(Voidsong) = 382. Now here alone the bard is under the DK damage of 633(Minus Harmtouch) Which puts the bard behind 251 damage (591 with Harmtouch). Now lets add in the auto attacks. The bard has a slow, same as the DK, so lets go with the same assumption of 7-10 auto attacks. With might only lasting 15 seconds of this basis of 21 seconds, that is 71% (15/21) of the fight the Bard has might up. Now if we use the same 7 auto attacks, 71% of those attacks should have Might active, or about 5 auto attacks (7x.71). So 87.5 x 5 = 437.5 damage. Add in 2 normal attacks for 140 damage and you have 577.5 damage. So 382(All spells) + 577.5(All Auto Attacks) = 959.5. Now here alone, the Bard is already under the Dreadknights total damage output by 13.5 damage, without Harmtouch included. Including Harmtouch, the bard is behind 353.5 damage. Of course you can argue that the bard has HealingChorus, it heals for 50 damage. But lets not forget that pesky SoulLeech, it heals the dreadknight for 150 damage at the end of those 18 seconds. So the Bard is behind 113.5 damage without harmtouch, or behind 453.5 damage with Harmtouch.

 

[teddytazer]

As bloodmage,
Hoe 35x.25 =8.75 bonus damage
35+8.75=43.75

15secs. not bad.

 

[PernixPike]

And that's not even with armor.

Also Teddy, this thread is about Bards buffing party members, and playing support. I don't think you understand the purpose of this thread.

 

[MrAwesomeShadow]

The max health of a DK is not that high. You'll need some hp from the profession to get it that high/higher. But c12 does have a point.

 

[TheMrLief]

Why would the main support class buff's not last as long as a Cleric or a Beguiler, it doesn't make sense.

 

[teddytazer]

Might have something to do with being an offensive powerhouse (rogue).

 

[PernixPike]

Bard an offensive powerhouse? I've really lost you there. This thread is about Bard's ability as a support in comparison to other classes with similar skills.

 

[teddytazer]

So because bard has high damage output, weaker support powers only make sense or else this class can just buff itself beyond reasonable numbers,

 

[malmenca]

Our damage blows. As proven by the crazy math c12 did, the warrior spec does more damage than the rogue one.

 

[c12095]

Our damage blows. As proven by the crazy math c12 did, the warrior spec does more damage than the rogue one.

I think it was too crazy for him to understand...

 

[PernixPike]

So because bard has high damage output, weaker support powers only make sense or else this class can just buff itself beyond reasonable numbers,

Increasing the length of Might/Wisdom will not buff Bard beyond reasonable numbers.

 

[PewPewPewLasers]

bard is a good class I think. I realize that the buffs aren't as strong as some other classes, but lets compare beguilers damage to bards. Think about it for a second; bards buffs may not last just as long, but beguilers and clerics might (warsong) aren't helpful to themselves, only to others in their group. A bard can hit 87 with warsong. How much does a beguiler hit with a hoe (with might) like 40 something?
I think that the bard buffs are fine. This is my PERSONAL OPINION I think that if something were to be changed, they would get more health. AND, with chakra now healing 50 (a while ago it was 100 (10) ) and it still costs 20 mana. Although I do realize it is meant for dispelling negative effects, with all the other spells that need to be casted, I think that either it should be less mana taken up, or more mana in general.

 

[TheMrLief]

I don't think you guys understand what the point of this suggestion is.

 

[PernixPike]

bard is a good class I think. I realize that the buffs aren't as strong as some other classes, but lets compare beguilers damage to bards. Think about it for a second; bards buffs may not last just as long, but beguilers and clerics might (warsong) aren't helpful to themselves, only to others in their group. A bard can hit 87 with warsong. How much does a beguiler hit with a hoe (with might) like 40 something?
I think that the bard buffs are fine. This is my PERSONAL OPINION I think that if something were to be changed, they would get more health. AND, with chakra now healing 50 (a while ago it was 100 (10) ) and it still costs 20 mana. Although I do realize it is meant for dispelling negative effects, with all the other spells that need to be casted, I think that either it should be less mana taken up, or more mana in general.

I think Bards should be made to be more support oriented rather than 1v1 oriented. As the wiki states, "The Bard is a Support class that specializes in group heals/buffs." If we are specialized in buffs, why are the buffs we have the worst of any class?