Suggestion Bard - Tweaks and New Skill Input

[AzenYumCha]

Well, it had been a while since I've suggested a few new things to a class. Anyway here we go.

Bards are one of the core support classes in Herocraft and was designed to support other classes to gain strong benefits.
I believe that the skills Warsong and Manasong are a little 'under the bar' when you compare to other buffs some classes have. For example, the Might for Beguiler and Cleric have the same buff properties as Warsong. However, Warsong lasts for only 15s whilst Might is lasting for a long 3 minutes! I would suggest, in order to boost the support class aspect of Bard, increasing the % damage enhancement of Warsong up to 40% (from 25%) and the length of Warsong to 30s (up from 15s).

Manasong is slightly similar with issues, but not harshly. Beguiler has Wisdom, boosting Mana regen by 80% for 3 minutes. Manasong does twice the amount of mana regen but lasts for only 15s. The only suggestion that I would make is increasing the duration of the buff for 30s (up from 15s).

Bard has a selection of Melee weapons. All swords, Note Block, Jukebox and all discs (with Record 11 increased damage). Many players in Herocraft will always go for the most strongest weapon that can be obtained easily. Players tend to choose Discs over the Note Block and the Jukebox because of its lower Melee damage.
I would like to suggest that the Note Block gets a passive skill in which it will have a 10% chance (starting from 3%, going up 0.2% per level) to inflict the Debuff of Mining Fatigue for 2s.

Last of all, a skill suggestion. It is called CelestialCoda (Coda, in musical terms, the conclusion)

Level: 57
Mana: 20
Stamina: 2
Reagants: None
Cooldown: 20s
Description: You begin to enhance your vocals and buff you and your party members a 20% Magic Damage Reduction for 10s.

I hope these were reasonably interesting suggestions!

 

[MultiHeartGold]

The skill you suggested seems nice and pretty balanced. I wouldnt have anything against the change on Manasong, but for Warshout I dont want a damage increase. Maybe a increase on how long it works, but not damage. With 40% damage increase, Bard would do 117,6 damage with 11 disc, which would make it a pretty overpowered solo class. For a Ninja, that would be 177,8 with Gold Sword, which would kill a master Wizard in 5 melee hits. But yeah. Increase Warshout's time to same as Might, and add the skill you suggested, maybe to replace something so Bard doesnt go too powerful. Also the buff on Note blocks and Jukeboxes would work as a passive skill imo.

 

[AzenYumCha]

The skill you suggested seems nice and pretty balanced. I wouldnt have anything against the change on Manasong, but for Warshout I dont want a damage increase. Maybe a increase on how long it works, but not damage. With 40% damage increase, Bard would do 117,6 damage with 11 disc, which would make it a pretty overpowered solo class. For a Ninja, that would be 177,8 with Gold Sword, which would kill a master Wizard in 5 melee hits. But yeah. Increase Warshout's time to same as Might, and add the skill you suggested, maybe to replace something so Bard doesnt go too powerful. Also the buff on Note blocks and Jukeboxes would work as a passive skill imo.

Thanks for the feedback Multi! Yes, the 40% boost is definitely too much, hahaha

 

[Dsawemd]

If implemented, these should be paired with a reduction in damage for bard. I was surprised to hear that discs are close to ninja swords, with record 11 being very close (I heard they were the same, that Can't be true.)

If you increase durations of their songs, they will have to sing once per skirmish and spend the rest of the time bashing heads in.

-1 for noteblocks giving a chance at a debuff. Especially a passive and perpetual one.

It would be cool to see Coda (Magic dmg reduction) but that would definitely require a loss in overall weapon damage.

 

[Dsawemd]

EDIT iphone double post sry

 

[judgedread540]

Awesome suggestions! I would love to see group invis!!

 

[Kainzo]

We have no intent on increasing duration of bard skills or buffs. It is by design that these are short bursts or "notes". bards are to "twist" skills to make a song. When it is possible, every bard-skill will make a certain note and you will be able to make music by doing so.

Either case, other utilities are possible but they will almost always be short duration.

 

[Favith]

If implemented, these should be paired with a reduction in damage for bard. I was surprised to hear that discs are close to ninja swords, with record 11 being very close (I heard they were the same, that Can't be true.)

If you increase durations of their songs, they will have to sing once per skirmish and spend the rest of the time bashing heads in.

-1 for noteblocks giving a chance at a debuff. Especially a passive and perpetual one.

It would be cool to see Coda (Magic dmg reduction) but that would definitely require a loss in overall weapon damage.

I've been saying this forever: reduce bard damage output (especially melee damage with a Record 11) and give us better group support. I'd sacrifice significant damage output to have either a) Warsong/Manasong stay the same power but last significantly longer or b) Warsong/Manasong stay the same duration but be better than what is offered by Clerics/Beguilers.

I know Kainzo is hung up on the idea of "twisting" these skills but they just aren't worth the cost to do it. Especially since Beguilers and Clerics are so prevalent--most pvp groups already get one or both of these buffs in a "cast and forget" form from another class. Why would a Bard currently bother with them unless he's solo? If they were stronger than the Beguiler/Cleric versions they might be worth messing with, as they currently are--not so much.

The Celestial Coda idea is a neat one. I like it. Personally, I'd still like to see us get a Stamina regen song that has a high cost to cast/maintain but greatly increases party stamina regen. It would make us have to choose what buffs to cast and might even force us to choose between a group buff or a Voidsong/Melodic Bindings. We wouldn't be able to do it all, but we'd have much more "support" options.

 

[w0nd3rb0y]

Might on beguilers lasts longer because they are not a melee class. 3 minute Warsong would make bards OP because they could have it up constantly.

 

[Favith]

Might on beguilers lasts longer because they are not a melee class. 3 minute Warsong would make bards OP because they could have it up constantly.

And yet Beguiler's wisdom last for 3 minutes as well, and they do use mana.

Cleric's Might last for 3 minutes--they can melee AND their might (as with beguiler's Wisdom) effect their whole group.

It isn't about a Bard being able to keep Might up on himself constantly, it's about what he can provide for the group as a support class. Most of the recent threads about improving the support aspect for Bard hinge on the proposed tradeoff of melee dps in order to have better/longer lasting buffs like the other classes. Would it matter so much if a Bard didn't have to "twist" Warsong if they didn't do as much melee damage? A cleric/Beguiler in the group provides this same effect to the entire party anyway, why does it matter if Bard could provide it in the same manner as well?

You're thinking of solo bard issues....we're thinking of improving our group support role and sacrificing our ability to solo in order to have these proposed improvements.

 

[w0nd3rb0y]

And yet Beguiler's wisdom last for 3 minutes as well, and they do use mana.

Cleric's Might last for 3 minutes--they can melee AND their might (as with beguiler's Wisdom) effect their whole group.

It isn't about a Bard being able to keep Might up on himself constantly, it's about what he can provide for the group as a support class. Most of the recent threads about improving the support aspect for Bard hinge on the proposed tradeoff of melee dps in order to have better/longer lasting buffs like the other classes. Would it matter so much if a Bard didn't have to "twist" Warsong if they didn't do as much melee damage? A cleric/Beguiler in the group provides this same effect to the entire party anyway, why does it matter if Bard could provide it in the same manner as well?

You're thinking of solo bard issues....we're thinking of improving our group support role and sacrificing our ability to solo in order to have these proposed improvements.

Not thinking in solo at all, if you have a beguiler in your group then it doesnt matter, but if bard had it they could keep it up and do huge melee. Bard gives a lot of buffs on top of warsong and manasong. Gives a speed boost to team, healing chorus do remove debuffs on top of the two mentioned. They also have voidsong, an aoe silence. I would take a bard over a cleric.

 

[Kwong050]

Bard currently can potentially protect allies very well while buffing them and doing decent dmg. They are currently at a very balanced place. If anything, I think that beguiler should lose wisdom.