Suggestion Balance suggestion for Dragoon

[LightningCape]

Main idea really is to replace jump with a low CD, decent range+scaling lunge.​

In my opinion this is a pretty simple change and would make the class more lancer like (lore wise). It would still have the amazing mobility of superjump just wouldn't be able to escape any fights which is not what warrior should be about.

Warriors: High health, tanky, power through fights
Rogues: Low health, squishy, high mobility

...(imo)

[Insert creative name here]
You lunge toward your target within (7 + 0.15 per agility point) blocks CD: 8 secs Stam: 300 Mana: 0

Note: Currently jump is Stam: 300 CD: 6 secs

Discuss.
@malikdanab
@Sirdemonic3
@BaBomba
Troll posts, rage, and unproductive comments will be tagged for removal**

 

[JoeBrowniee]

I agree.

Sort of similar to a Wizards Blink?

 

[LightningCape]

Sort of similar to a Wizards Blink?

That's another boat altogether. Main topic of this thread is Dragoon.

 

[malikdanab]

The point behind this change (From what I can tell) is to keep Goons mobility, but prevent them from being cowards and just jumping away I could see this working.

 

[LightningCape]

The point behind this change (From what I can tell) is to keep Goons mobility, but prevent them from being cowards and just jumping away I could see this working.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Also, @werwew19 we don't always see eye to eye in game but I would like to hear why you don't think would work. Actually interested in how.

 

[pure_autism]

I agree with this completely, this would be a great skill for quickly engaging into a fight. In my opinion, Dragoon is a very, very powerful class. And on top of that, they have the best mobility in the game. As it stands, Dragoons will almost always use Jump to ensure that they will never die and see an end to their 130+ killstreak. This would be great for closing gaps and getting within melee range of those pesky squishies. This could also be nicely paired with Impale or Spear. As long as I'm on this topic, I think Spear needs to be fixed. According to the wiki, it has a 12-block range. Really?! I believe that the normal melee range is 4 blocks. I could see Spear having a range of 8 or 9 blocks, but 12 blocks is just nonsense in my opinion. I can honestly say that Dragoon is one of the most enjoyable classes I have ever played, but it's so powerful that no other class stands a chance, which is why I don't want to play it. In conclusion, I think Dragoon should be used for quickly getting into fights, not out of them at no risk whatsoever.

 

[JupiterRome]

Main idea really is to replace jump with a low CD, decent range+scaling lunge.​

In my opinion this is a pretty simple change and would make the class more lancer like (lore wise). It would still have the amazing mobility of superjump just wouldn't be able to escape any fights which is not what warrior should be about.

Warriors: High health, tanky, power through fights
Rogues: Low health, squishy, high mobility

...(imo)

[Insert creative name here]
You lunge toward your target within (7 + 0.15 per agility point) blocks CD: 8 secs Stam: 300 Mana: 0

Note: Currently jump is Stam: 300 CD: 6 secs

Discuss.
@malikdanab
@Sirdemonic3
@BaBomba
Troll posts, rage, and unproductive comments will be tagged for removal**

I agree, for the most part, mabye give Goon a Jump That cannot Be used in pvp? then it will still have the ability to get into enemy towns just like before but it wont be able to run away... I also think this would make chasing better

 

[malikdanab]

I agree, for the most part, mabye give Goon a Jump That cannot Be used in pvp? then it will still have the ability to get into enemy towns just like before but it wont be able to run away... I also think this would make chasing better

Make super jump not work in pvp. Done!

 

[LightningCape]

I agree, for the most part, mabye give Goon a Jump That cannot Be used in pvp? then it will still have the ability to get into enemy towns just like before but it wont be able to run away... I also think this would make chasing better

Lunge is meant to make chasing easier. Same function as jump. Making jump an out of combat thing wont really accomplish anything if running is what you're trying to stop.

Goon at low HP--AoE knockback--Run until out of combat--Jump away

Edit- Also interested in why you think that this wouldn't work @Delfofthebla

 

[JupiterRome]

Lunge is meant to make chasing easier. Same function as jump. Making jump an out of combat thing wont really accomplish anything if running is what you're trying to stop.

Goon at low HP--AoE knockback--Run until out of combat--Jump away

Edit- Also interested in why you think that this wouldn't work @Delfofthebla

Yeah I guess your right

 

[Dakinara]

I think this a good balancing solution, but admit it would cause dragon to lose some of its fun appeal. Jumping is fun even when not running from people lol. That said it would improve the current pvp balance situation.

Another alternative is keep jump as is, but now that we have programming to make jump scale off agility, make it also scale off current slowness level. Therefore - if snared - jump sucks as well. Problem is there arent very many snare type abilities in game at all, either. Its weird because the ability does scale off momentum already - you will jump much further if you spacebar jump while sprinting compared to stand still jump, but snares seem to have no effect whatsoever right now .

Ultimately, i would not be opposed to the change proposed but i do think it would cause dragoon to lose some fun appeal.

 

[LightningCape]

I think this a good balancing solution, but admit it would cause dragon to lose some of its fun appeal. Jumping is fun even when not running from people lol. That said it would improve the current pvp balance situation.

Another alternative is keep jump as is, but now that we have programming to make jump scale off agility, make it also scale off current slowness level. Therefore - if snared - jump sucks as well. Problem is there arent very many snare type abilities in game at all, either. Its weird because the ability does scale off momentum already - you will jump much further if you spacebar jump while sprinting compared to stand still jump, but snares seem to have no effect whatsoever right now .

Ultimately, i would not be opposed to the change proposed but i do think it would cause dragoon to lose some fun appeal.

If fun is derived from mobility skills then a lot of classes aren't very "fun". Though the idea of scaled mobility skills based on slowness/movement is interesting but I don't feel a lack of snares affect the current state of jump or other "strong" mobility skills.

 

[Dakinara]

If fun is derived from mobility skills then a lot of classes aren't very "fun". Though the idea of scaled mobility skills based on slowness/movement is interesting but I don't feel a lack of snares affect the current state of jump or other "strong" mobility skills.

well, i dont mean fun can only be derived from mobility, and fun is obviously very subjective lol. To me it is a fun skill to use, even completely outside of pvp, for traveling and traversing things, but i certainly dont think it is a balanced skill in pvp currently. Part of me would be sad to see it change for that reason, but like i said I am not opposed to the suggested change because it would improve pvp balance. Its just the optimal change to me would be something that keeps the current jump ability somewhat intact, while preventing it from being a "ok im running now seeya" almost always get away ability in pvp. All that said, sometimes the "optimal" solution has to take a back seat to the practical, but at this point i have not seen much indication from balance team other than malik that they consider the current strength of "hit and run" mechanics of a few classes to be much of a problem.

And lack of snares definitely does not effect the current state of jump / mobility skills because they literally have no effect on them lol. If anything, introducing more snares without having them limit movement abilities would only make movement abilities more powerful.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

Jump is here to stay, like it or not. Having a target-based Lunge really deters with the mobility of the class.

I've been public enemy #1 of Dragoon since joining the server 14 months ago. Last week I finally mastered Dragoon since I figured I'd treat myself to an OP class for a change. All of my speculations of how overpowered the class is came true. Oddly, the issue isn't necessarily Jump. The issue is how much damage and armor a Dragoon can have. With a modest 26 Strenght I do 70.1dmg with a diamond shovel. 32 Endurance gets me at full iron, but I could sacrifice a lot more points by a slight downgrade to chain boats. Most alarmingly, 20 Agility gives my Jump a ton of mobility, and there really isn't much of a difference if I downgraded to 15 Agility. All in all, a Dragoon shouldn't have high left click and armor when it is THAT mobile.

Back on topic where Jump is concerned, I'd like for it to have a longer cooldown. If not, it needs to have a higher stamina cost. As it stands, if a Dragoon uses Jump off CD it will always regenerate the same amount of stamina it uses up. If the cost was increased 2-fold then a Dragoon could use Jump somewhere along the lines of 3 times before it can no longer sprint.

I hate Jump as much as the next guy, but axing the skill altogether isn't the right approach. A higher CD, a double stamina cost, or both is the better option. As far as Superjump goes, a 1 second warm-up is not enough. If it was increased to 5 seconds it would deter Dragoons from using it in the heat of combat.

Also, please note that this '120 killstreak Dragoon' that you speak of is not an accurate description of what a Dragoon actually is. I don't need to state the obvious or point fingers, but nothing he is doing is legit and is giving Dragoons a bad name. Dragoons are mobile and OP as fuck, but not to the extent that he is portraying them.

 

[Sirdemonic3]

just to be a voice of objection. i think dragoon is a class to jump in and out of fights as it sees fit, tbh i prefer jump over a lunge just because u can juke a jump. some people dislike jump because you can run from anything as a dragoon but you cant take mobility away from all classes, its what makes dragoon fun for alot of people.

 

[LightningCape]

Also, please note that this '120 killstreak Dragoon' that you speak of is not an accurate description of what a Dragoon actually is. I don't need to state the obvious or point fingers, but nothing he is doing is legit and is giving Dragoons a bad name. Dragoons are mobile and OP as fuck, but not to the extent that he is portraying them.

Agreed

just to be a voice of objection. i think dragoon is a class to jump in and out of fights as it sees fit.

I disagree with this slightly. Balancing classes doesn't mean axing all mobility I'm just saying that the option to jump in and out isn't fitting of the class where it stands (warrior) such a thing is fitting for rogues who are very good at escaping.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

just to be a voice of objection. i think dragoon is a class to jump in and out of fights as it sees fit, tbh i prefer jump over a lunge just because u can juke a jump. some people dislike jump because you can run from anything as a dragoon but you cant take mobility away from all classes, its what makes dragoon fun for alot of people.

Right, but everything in moderation. That's why I think it should have a 500-600 stamina cost. If we really want to play the lore and logic card, you'd think that a Dragoon would get so tired from multiple Jumps (especially in heavy armor) that he can no longer sprint and would need to take a breather.

Ultimately, the best way to tackle this problem would be to give a Dragoon a slowness debuff once it lands from a Jump for x amount of seconds. I know if I just leaped several feet forward wearing something heavy I'd need to take a breath to recover. Delf tried to code a 'once landed' skill awhile ago but couldn't do it without it being hacky, so that's out of the question.

 

[Sirdemonic3]

Right, but everything in moderation. That's why I think it should have a 500-600 stamina cost. If we really want to play the lore and logic card, you'd think that a Dragoon would get so tired from multiple Jumps (especially in heavy armor) that he can no longer sprint and would need to take a breather.

Ultimately, the best way to tackle this problem would be to give a Dragoon a slowness debuff once it lands from a Jump for x amount of seconds. I know if I just leaped several feet forward wearing something heavy I'd need to take a breath to recover. Delf tried to code a 'once landed' skill awhile ago but couldn't do it without it being hacky, so that's out of the question.

larger stam cost would make sense but would they be able to use skills after words?

 

[werwew19]

Jump is here to stay, like it or not. Having a target-based Lunge really deters with the mobility of the class.

I've been public enemy #1 of Dragoon since joining the server 14 months ago. Last week I finally mastered Dragoon since I figured I'd treat myself to an OP class for a change. All of my speculations of how overpowered the class is came true. Oddly, the issue isn't necessarily Jump. The issue is how much damage and armor a Dragoon can have. With a modest 26 Strenght I do 70.1dmg with a diamond shovel. 32 Endurance gets me at full iron, but I could sacrifice a lot more points by a slight downgrade to chain boats. Most alarmingly, 20 Agility gives my Jump a ton of mobility, and there really isn't much of a difference if I downgraded to 15 Agility. All in all, a Dragoon shouldn't have high left click and armor when it is THAT mobile.

Back on topic where Jump is concerned, I'd like for it to have a longer cooldown. If not, it needs to have a higher stamina cost. As it stands, if a Dragoon uses Jump off CD it will always regenerate the same amount of stamina it uses up. If the cost was increased 2-fold then a Dragoon could use Jump somewhere along the lines of 3 times before it can no longer sprint.

I hate Jump as much as the next guy, but axing the skill altogether isn't the right approach. A higher CD, a double stamina cost, or both is the better option. As far as Superjump goes, a 1 second warm-up is not enough. If it was increased to 5 seconds it would deter Dragoons from using it in the heat of combat.

Also, please note that this '120 killstreak Dragoon' that you speak of is not an accurate description of what a Dragoon actually is. I don't need to state the obvious or point fingers, but nothing he is doing is legit and is giving Dragoons a bad name. Dragoons are mobile and OP as fuck, but not to the extent that he is portraying them.

@LightningCape


This.


However dragoons don't do as much damage output as people think they are doing and with the superjump cd being changed quietly recently you will all find us a much easier class to kill.


I feel dragoons jump and damage shouldn't be touched negatively but there armor should be changed.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

larger stam cost would make sense but would they be able to use skills after words?

A larger stamina cost would deter a Dragoon from running from a fight, that is settled.

On the opposite end, a larger stamina cost would prevent a Dragoon from chasing an opponent as efficiently as it currently does. Having said that, Spear DOES have a 12 block range, and a 9 block range Impale is a great option as well to keep your enemy from getting away from you.

Dragoons have the skill-set of chasing any opponent down, a 300 stamina Jump at a 6 second cooldown is just overkill.