Suggestion Balance Changes

[pure_autism]

Tbh I think all stuns should be removed due to how op they are (divine stunning is like a free 3 hearts ish, Great Combustion makes pyro burst very easy to land and the burst us very very very heavy on damage, Trazil said it can 1 shot him, it gets me very low as a Druid but ifk if it would 1 shot or just get you low)

Edit - changed 1 shit to 1 shot

Without a stun Pyromancer really would not be a desirable class. Basically, unless you could always land ChaosOrb, you'd have no burst damage other than the ~180 that the stun does.

I think the part about being one shotted as a Necromancer or whatever Trazil plays is false. Here's why:

~180 from GC + ~140 from Chaos Orb + 4 melee hits that each do about 65 each, minus 30% assuming he wears 35-40 armor weight which is about 182 damage totals up to... 502 damage... So unless Trazil is walking around with a -34 constitution build, that won't one shot him.

Even if the Pyromancer threw in DarkBolt and DragonsBreath, that's still only about 700 damage. Yeah, that's a huge chunk of your health, but not a one shot.

Go math.

 

[JupiterRome]

Without a stun Pyromancer really would not be a
desirable class. Basically, unless you could always land ChaosOrb, you'd
have no burst damage other than the ~180 that the stun does.


I think the part about being one
shotted as a Necromancer or whatever Trazil plays is false. Here's why:

~180 from GC + ~140 from Chaos Orb + 4 melee hits that each do about 65 each, minus 30% assuming he wears 35-40 armor weight which is about 78 damage totals up to... 398 damage... So unless Trazil is walking around with a -47 constitution build, that won't
one shot him.

Even if the Pyromancer threw in
DarkBolt and DragonsBreath, that's still only about 600 damage. Yeah, that's a huge chunk of your health
but not a one shot.


Go math.

Cuz everyone uses your build, Pyro is op with that burst, if you start and argument I will more then likely just ignore you.

 

[pure_autism]

Cuz everyone uses your build, Pyro is op with that burst, if you start and argument I will more then likely just ignore you.

...Ok?

 

[JupiterRome]

...Ok?

Pyro can't 1 shot ny Druid, It gets me uber low but I mean not gunna argue when I'm not the one saying it 1 shots me. Just gunna leave this here @Trazil

Edit - btw 70% of 65 is 45.5 so 4 hits is 182 but add chaotic strength to that to and it's more just saying @BaBomba best at math NA right?

 

[jazza411]

Pyro can't 1 shot ny Druid, It gets me uber low but I mean not gunna argue when I'm not the one saying it 1 shots me. Just gunna leave this here @Trazil

Edit - btw 70% of 65 is 45.5 so 4 hits is 182 but add chaotic strength to that to and it's more just saying @BaBomba best at math NA right?

I am not sure there is many pyro's who use chaotic strength please correct me if I am wrong, also Pyro deserves their damage output seeing as their best skills are skill shots...

 

[JupiterRome]

I am not sure there is many pyro's who use chaotic strength please correct me if I am wrong, also Pyro deserves their damage output seeing as their best skills are skill shots...

Yeah but from what ive heard Great Combustion Is easy to land, idk though cuz I'm not the best with skill shots and great combustion basically gives em free skill shots, he is including melee and I mean if your done using spells why not use a little bit more of a damage buff on melee, I believe Pyro needs a nerf but meh that's just me

 

[JupiterRome]

@BaBomba I really wanna know how you got 4 hits, dealing 65 damage -30% of each hit = 78, that's more then 100 of

So yeah Go Math?

 

[jazza411]

Yeah but from what ive heard Great Combustion Is easy to land, idk though cuz I'm not the best with skill shots and great combustion basically gives em free skill shots, he is including melee and I mean if your done using spells why not use a little bit more of a damage buff on melee, I believe Pyro needs a nerf but meh that's just me

Great combustion is one of the hardest skills to hit on the server and I can't believe you are nitpicking over pyromancer when there is classes like paladin running around unstoppable.

 

[pure_autism]

@BaBomba I really wanna know how you got 4 hits, dealing 65 damage -30% of each hit = 78, that's more then 100 of

So yeah Go Math?

I'm smart.

Changing it...

 

[pure_autism]

Pyro can't 1 shot ny Druid, It gets me uber low but I mean not gunna argue when I'm not the one saying it 1 shots me. Just gunna leave this here @Trazil

Edit - btw 70% of 65 is 45.5 so 4 hits is 182 but add chaotic strength to that to and it's more just saying @BaBomba best at math NA right?

Thanks for actually taking the time to do all the math, now my numbers are correct. I took 30% of it instead of 70%, but it's not like you don't occasionally make mistakes too.

/skill BackOnTopic

 

[JupiterRome]

Great combustion is one of the hardest skills to hit on the server and I can't believe you are nitpicking over pyromancer when there is classes like paladin running around unstoppable.

TBH I think pyro is in a nice spot, I just hate stuns and was being stupid and forgot Necro isn't that Tanky but I have heard great combustion is easy to land with spd pot, I honestly like where pyro is at but I was just being stupid not taking into account me being squishy

I still hate stuns

 

[Trazil]

I have ~950 hp as a necro last time I checked but I won't play much until August so it doesn't 1 shot me if all your math and stuff is right (and I'm not going to check it) but it is still close enough that all you really even need to do for the rest of the fight is melee. Now if 1 skill will make or break the class there is something wrong with it, @BaBomba

 

[jazza411]

I have ~950 hp as a necro last time I checked but I won't play much until August so it doesn't 1 shot me if all your math and stuff is right (and I'm not going to check it) but it is still close enough that all you really even need to do for the rest of the fight is melee. Now if 1 skill will make or break the class there is something wrong with it, @BaBomba

I don't think you understand the difficulty of hitting great combustion...

 

[Trazil]

I don't think you understand the difficulty of hitting great combustion...

Then please expain... It has a 3block range and a 1 second warm-up which it really isn't hard to stay close to someone for is there something I'm missing?

 

[JupiterRome]

I don't think you understand the difficulty of hitting great combustion...

I'm going off of what others said

 

[Trazil]

I'm really surprised nobody has really talked about necro but a big problem with it is the heal from drainsoul, I thought it would be cool if to instead of nerfing the heal on the skill increase the cool down make it so that the necro could use a bone as a sacrificial tool and when it hits its enemies the necro takes dmg (maybe around 20-30per hit) but temporarily buffing their int by 5 for a set duration of time. The buff would not become stronger if your target was hit multiple times but it could increase in duration.

I don't really know if this would be a great idea or possible but it did sound cool into head and seemed pretty fun

 

[Ahrall]

Ok children it's math time.
Lets assume the Pyro has 30 intellect (average for pyros) and 30 strength (above average for pyros) and they are attacking a squishy squishy necro with only 30% damage reduction.
The Pyro lands great combustion
181.25 damage
The Pyro Chaos Orbs you
146.25 damage
You eat a dark bolt (still stunned by the way)
95 damage
You get enveloped in a Dragon's Breath
112.5 damage
and the whole time they Pyro is relentlessly wailing on you with their gold tier weapon
268 damage reduced by 30% = 183 damage

So after this violent mauling you have taken 718 damage, but wait, this is actually not possible. You see all these skills add up to 1150 stamina, and a Pyro only has 1000 stamina. Assuming the Pyro has 15 endurance (average) thats still 1050 stamina. So one spell will have to go.
And lets also remember that a Pyro has to be full stamina at the start of this rotation with all of their skills off cooldown meaning either
A: you got jumped (in which you are screwed anyways)
B: he hasn't done any damage to you up to this point
So lets take dark bolt out of this rotation meaning you are actually taking around 623 damage

So under picture perfect conditions where the stars are aligned in a pyromancer's favor yes they can six heart you, but if you let yourself get wombo comboed this hard you deserve to loose 6 hearts in 2 seconds.

Every class in the game has a way to interrupt or negate the damage from this combo (in the necromancer example, just use harmshield to reduce the damage to 436, this is the same as bolt + fireball + iceball.) So when you see the pyromancer warming up for something, I can bet you 100s that he is trying to explode you, just use your class' interrupt or defensive cooldown to stop it from happening.

 

[jazza411]

Then please expain... It has a 3block range and a 1 second warm-up which it really isn't hard to stay close to someone for is there something I'm missing?

All you are doing is quoting the wiki without showing experience of the skill... Honestly if pyro is so crash hot why isn't it a popular class?

 

[Jrr_]

All you are doing is quoting the wiki without showing experience of the skill... Honestly if pyro is so crash hot why isn't it a popular class?

It's harder to play the class than most.

 

[pure_autism]

I have ~950 hp as a necro last time I checked but I won't play much until August so it doesn't 1 shot me if all your math and stuff is right (and I'm not going to check it) but it is still close enough that all you really even need to do for the rest of the fight is melee. Now if 1 skill will make or break the class there is something wrong with it, @BaBomba

Necro has much more kiting ability than Pyro, but if the Pyro has ender pearls and gets in range to stun... Yeah you're screwed.

I'd be all for a damage reduction if Pyro got more skills to use in its stun combo. It gets a bit boring, doing stun, hit, ChaosOrb, hit, hit, hit (Similar to Haven Beguiler relying on the same nuke combo every time), then hope you get the kill. If you use all of your skills during the stun, you'll be completely out if stamina for a while. Since Pyro has long cooldowns, you can use it to your advantage (if you survive, that is) when the stun is over.