Armor Mitigation DIscussion

[Rhapsodist]

http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/armor-mitigation-non-vanilla-changes.56056
Since some can't reply to that.

I think certain classes, like Bard, should have a bit more armor. They are in the middle of the fight with the warriors, they should have the armor to survive.

 

[look_out]

I reduced it to 11.

 

[Rhapsodist]

I reduced it to 11.

Changed OP to reflect that, however, It's still higher than any Caster, Healer or Rogue. I think that's a bit odd. It IS a healing class, it has effective damage mitigation just by having those skills

 

[look_out]

The bard shouldn't have a lot of armor. Bards should be running around with a team that can protect them. I dont want a Bard where you can go around soloing classes. The class is more a support role.

Cleric has always been a tank healer and i didnt want to take that away.

 

[Rhapsodist]

The bard shouldn't have a lot of damage. Bards should be running around with a team that can protect them. I dont want a Bard where you can go around soloing classes. The class is more a support role.

Cleric has always been a tank healer and i didnt want to take that away.

I don't think Clerics should be "Tank Healers"
They have heals, buffs, and a lot of mana.
That suggests, to me, a full time healer/buffer. Not a tank. Paladin's are your tank healers. with Holy Aura, Layhands, and Absolution.

 

[look_out]

Ment armor not damage. Lot of stuff going through my mind.

 

[Rhapsodist]

Ment armor not damage. Lot of stuff going through my mind.

Well they can't Solo anyway. They don't do enough damage. They are there, mostly, for pure buffs. but the rest of my post still stands.

 

[look_out]

-_-

 

[LordZelkova]

Bard should be on equal footing armor wise with Sammy IMO. It was meant to be the most armored rogue cause it had to stand in the middle of the fight so it could keep up buffs and put its AoE's to good use. As it stands, bard get destroyed. Considering most AoE's are magic damage anyway, a little more armor wouldn't hurt it. It would really just let it not get destroyed by any melee class.

Bard: 16% mitigation
Ranger: 20%
Samurai: 22%


So the ranged class that doesn't want be in melee range gets more armor?

The reason I say bard should be equal to Sammy is that its the least armor Warrior. Bard is supposed to be able to take some hits, buff his party, and hit back decently well. Pre-Armor patch, most people agreed that bard was fine. Personally I think it has some Stamina problems, but thats just me.

 

[Dakinara]

these seem like pretty significant changes, not saying good or bad but should give balance team a pass at running some fights with new armor values on test before push something live.

 

[werwew19]

Yeah these percentages are ridiculous. They need some more discussion before they are finalized. I am aware they are just suggestions and percentages to work from and I know this is a big change to the current armor system. Just trying to help finalize them because nobody on the balance team has bothered to respond to the percentage post yet.

-Dreadknights should not have a huge armor gain on Berserker when DK outputs more damage.

-Necromancers do more damage then wizard and they have CC so don't pull the Utility card with that one. 5% is a huge gap between the two.

- Clerics should not have that huge of an armor gain on Druid when both are dedicated healers. No point in going druid when a cleric can just full heal every 20-30 seconds and tank for days with a percentage higher then most warriors.

Those are the 3 things I noticed right away and I feel current states of each class when it comes to damage etc. didn't even seem to be considered.

 

[look_out]

Bard should be on equal footing armor wise with Sammy IMO. It was meant to be the most armored rogue cause it had to stand in the middle of the fight so it could keep up buffs and put its AoE's to good use. As it stands, bard get destroyed. Considering most AoE's are magic damage anyway, a little more armor wouldn't hurt it. It would really just let it not get destroyed by any melee class.

Bard: 16% mitigation
Ranger: 20%
Samurai: 22%


So the ranged class that doesn't want be in melee range gets more armor?

The reason I say bard should be equal to Sammy is that its the least armor Warrior. Bard is supposed to be able to take some hits, buff his party, and hit back decently well. Pre-Armor patch, most people agreed that bard was fine. Personally I think it has some Stamina problems, but thats just me.

I switched Bard and Rangers armor. I don't think bard should have a lot of armor because bard used to be an amazing solo class because it had good defense and decent attack. I feel like they should have to rely on their party to keep them safe cause the bard benefits the party so much. The bard should be the person getting focused in a team fight. If they have really good armor they would be able to tank too much. They are a support class. Give them too much armor and they become too powerful.

Ranger went to 16% and Bard to 19% mitigation.

Keep in mind guys that this is not actually what armor the classes will have this is just what i feel the classes should have and ultimately its Kainzo's choice what armor to give what class

 

[look_out]

Yeah these percentages are ridiculous. They need some more discussion before they are finalized. I am aware they are just suggestions and percentages to work from and I know this is a big change to the current armor system. Just trying to help finalize them because nobody on the balance team has bothered to respond to the percentage post yet.

-Dreadknights should not have a huge armor gain on Berserker when DK outputs more damage.

-Necromancers do more damage then wizard and they have CC so don't pull the Utility card with that one. 5% is a huge gap between the two.

- Clerics should not have that huge of an armor gain on Druid when both are dedicated healers. No point in going druid when a cleric can just full heal every 20-30 seconds and tank for days with a percentage higher then most warriors.

Those are the 3 things I noticed right away and I feel current states of each class when it comes to damage etc. didn't even seem to be considered.

What do you suggest for their %s

 

[werwew19]

What do you suggest for their %s

Since we haven't had a full test with percentages I can't really tell how big of a difference some of this would make.

Wizards should be at 19 or 20% and Necromancers should be at 16 or 17%.

Berserker Armor either needs to be buffed or Dreadknight armor needs a nerf. Why should I take a berserker to a fight when a DK outclasses them in every scenario now? Mobility with Dread Steed, Dread Aura doing a noticeable amount now, Harmtouch and just the entire class in general.

Clerics armor need to be toned down and closer to druids. Cleric is a lot more heals and druid has more support skills (invigorate, mana regen, etc.) with herocrafts pvp healing is much more op then a skill like invigorate when stam regen is already pretty damn fast. The "tank" cleric can 1v1 like gods if these percentages went live.

 

[LordZelkova]

I switched Bard and Rangers armor. I don't think bard should have a lot of armor because bard used to be an amazing solo class because it had good defense and decent attack. I feel like they should have to rely on their party to keep them safe cause the bard benefits the party so much. The bard should be the person getting focused in a team fight. If they have really good armor they would be able to tank too much. They are a support class. Give them too much armor and they become too powerful.

Ranger went to 16% and Bard to 19% mitigation.

Keep in mind guys that this is not actually what armor the classes will have this is just what i feel the classes should have and ultimately its Kainzo's choice what armor to give what class

19-20% is much better I agree. Hard needs to be able to tank or it won't be used in fights. Yes it gets focused due to the buffs, but you don't them to go down too quickly. The main issue with hard balance is that if you buff it's group utility most times you push it into very strong solo standing. We need a page where it can stay in a group fight but not wreak havoc in 1v1s. I'd like to see how 22% works just so it's equal to Sammy. But 19% seems like a good solo set. A little more might help for the group focusing.

 

[Solidze]

Well they can't Solo anyway. They don't do enough damage. They are there, mostly, for pure buffs. but the rest of my post still stands.

Well there is your problem. Balance shouldn't be solely based off solo play alone, but you need to look at the group play aspect of a class as well. This is a MMORPG server, solo play can be punishing. Some classes excel in solo play, some excel in group fights. Every class should have a purpose and should be distinguished between those two areas. If you want to "solo" play, well go play a less punishing class like a dragoon...bard can excel in group fights.

 

[LordZelkova]

Well there is your problem. Balance shouldn't be solely based off solo play alone, but you need to look at the group play aspect of a class as well. This is a MMORPG server, solo play can be punishing. Some classes excel in solo play, some excel in group fights. Every class should have a purpose and should be distinguished between those two areas. If you want to "solo" play, well go play a less punishing class like a dragoon...bard can excel in group fights.

Why should you have to change class cause you don't play in a group? Every class should be viable in every situation. Some classes can excel in groups and be less good in solo, but should always be viable.

 

[look_out]

Look at the big picture guys not just certain 1v1s

 

[GangstaKl3n]

Don't nerf dk plz it's a nice and friendly class no nerf plz

 

[GangstaKl3n]

Looking at the big picture I see that DK is balanced and is a great class!