Suggestion Armor DR tweaks

[DrearyDragon]

I believe armor damage reduction is too high in its current state; as a Dragoon with 17 endurance (total) I have 65 armor weight, which is 52% DR when fully utilized.

The issue with this is that armored targets can cheaply ignore huge amounts of physical damage, shutting down certain classes entirely while having 0 effect on caster classes.
Compounding this with most mages doing larger amounts of damage than most classes (bolt, plaguebomb), having it completely pierce the DR that most classes can't do anything against creates a large gap in power that I think needs to be fixed, by reducing DR ratios on armor.


In contrast, you need 50 constitution to get 10% mr. While I think the attribute itself is perfectly fine, the damage reduction numbers are just so large it creates issues/hardhardcounters between a lot melee classes, which for the most part wont change but will help the differences not be so extreme and hopeless.

 

[0xNaomi]

The damage reduction from armor is completely vanilla. We just stuck a visible number on it rather than armor points.
If armor needed to be reduced, then it would be easier to change the stats than the effectiveness of armor itself.

Magic resist, on the other hand, is completely controlled by the stat AFAIK.

 

[Rubber_Duckies]

Endurance and armor atm is whack!

 

[Delfofthebla]

EDIT: Wait, are you implying that armor is too strong? Because despite the fact that armor mitigates very high levels of damage, I'd argue that constitution is a much more effective defensive stat. Do you disagree?

 

[Kainzo]

We do not have the ability to configure damage mitigation.

 

[Rubber_Duckies]

We do not have the ability to configure damage mitigation.

But you can configure endurance and starting armor weight.

 

[Fjordsen]

I agree, classes like Pyro can be DPS, Tank, Assassin & Mage at once. Being a ninja against casters is just bullshit now because even though I can silence for 2.5 sec they can easily tank my melee dmg with their diamond, iron, chain etc. armor. Seeing a wizard with diamond armor is not a pleasent sight as a melee dps class. And since the Magic Resist in CON is so minimal, there is no counter against caster classes that use high rank armor except for other magic users.

 

[Rubber_Duckies]

I agree, classes like Pyro can be DPS, Tank, Assassin & Mage at once. Being a ninja against casters is just bullshit now because even though I can silence for 2.5 sec they can easily tank my melee dmg with their diamond, iron, chain etc. armor. Seeing a wizard with diamond armor is not a pleasent sight as a melee dps class. And since the Magic Resist in CON is so minimal, there is no counter against caster classes that use high rank armor except for other magic users.

Pretty much. Its annoying playing Ninja when half the players mitigate my damage to dust. Also, when Ranger's explosive shot gets nerfed (hopefully) they'll feel the pain too :/.

 

[arcanegrove]

By getting endurance as a caster class, you really hurt DPs. Unless you put 25 points into endurance, its the same as when casters could wear full leather. I find that melee classes have no problem killing me as a necromancer with iron chest and boots, which it 40 armor weight. However, I have fought and really destroyed a ninja with it. But that was just because I had the jump on him. I really don't think armor needs to be changed

 

[Fjordsen]

By getting endurance as a caster class, you really hurt DPs. Unless you put 25 points into endurance, its the same as when casters could wear full leather. I find that melee classes have no problem killing me as a necromancer with iron chest and boots, which it 40 armor weight. However, I have fought and really destroyed a ninja with it. But that was just because I had the jump on him. I really don't think armor needs to be changed

Are you kidding me? A caster can dish out tons of damage even if he/she spends a few points in END to use iron/dia armor pieces. Casters with armor absolutely destroys Melee DPS classes.

 

[DrearyDragon]

EDIT: Wait, are you implying that armor is too strong? Because despite the fact that armor mitigates very high levels of damage, I'd argue that constitution is a much more effective defensive stat. Do you disagree?

No, not at all. Constitution is 100% more effective as an attribute itself.

Endurance and armor atm is whack!

Endurance is never worth having over 20 in pretty much all situations; its the massive damage reduction easily acquired from 30 allocation points and your base hero armor.

I don't know what could be done then, as I have no experience with any kind of this stuff code wise.
Maybe some of you dev guys can figure something out though.

 

[Taranwandering]

I'm new, but I don't see any point for spending a large amount of points on armor.

Basically, it takes 100 points of endurance to have full iron armor, which is around 65% damage reduction. The same amount of skill points could get you 100 points of constitution which is 775 hp and 20% magic resistance (I think).


If you have 600 hp, adding 775 hp gives you 1375hp and 1650 against magic


If you have 600 hp, adding 65% damage redux gives you an effective hp of 990 against physical attacks and 600 vs magic.


If you have 1200 hp, adding 775 gives you 1975 hp against physical and 2370 against magic.

If you have 1200 hp, adding 65% damage redux gives you an effective hp of 1980 against physical and 1200 against magic.




As you can see, you'd have to have more hp I think than any hero generally gets in order for the values to even start being effective against physical damage-- and they never will catch up against magic damage.


Tiny amounts of armor might be cost effective because attributes level up at increasingly slow rates, but overall getting full sets of armor seems stupid.

 

[Taranwandering]

I didn't realize that different classes have different base equip weights.

I'm also not sure but the wiki suggests that hp is capped so that certain classes, even with 100 con, would only get an extra 200-300hp. This, and base equip stats, would likely make physical damage significantly weaker because it is always against armor (stat investment even for leather is minimal now) while making magic damage likely to always do 30-50% more damage.



These changes might make armor more viable since it is a smaller stat investment though I'm still not sure how the math plays out yet. I'm new but it seems like a lot of the damages to watch out for are not protected by armor.

 

[0xNaomi]

Armor comes into play as magic resist does - it grants more damage you can take per health point.
if you play a solo non-healer, it doesn't matter too much, but when healing comes into play the less actual points you need to heal the better.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

I'm also not sure but the wiki suggests that hp is capped so that certain classes...

Please tell me where you gain this impression in the wiki so I can try to make it clearer that this is not the case. Edited to add: I see I got as far as adding a clarifying note to Berserker and not the rest - fixing that now.

HP etc "base" figures are modified by Attribute allocations. I'm adding more links from the class pages to the Attributes page - perhaps this will help.

 

[Taranwandering]

It's an old post and you fixed the wiki already

 

[Taranwandering]

It's an old post and you fixed the wiki already

 

[lioIIoil]

Are you kidding me? A caster can dish out tons of damage even if he/she spends a few points in END to use iron/dia armor pieces. Casters with armor absolutely destroys Melee DPS classes.

Not at all you need at least 35 points into intellect to get the old spell damage before attributes. At least in wizard. I put only 19 points into endurance to wear iron chest and boots, which is just a small improvement from full leather. I have seen wizards in full iron but that means they have endurance as their main stat, they won't do much with spells and have low health. Ninjas can stun for crazy amounts of time with charisma and do like 200 damage with their sword with backstab.