Suggestion A Handful of Suggestions

[j2gay]

My experience with bed spawning: as an engineer on zeal (for all u noobs that means no combat skills for me) I came on a raid to Coal Harbour. After a relatively successful raid, a few of the stragglers got caught in a house.

I accidentally slept in the bed, and died once. My teammates recalled as this happened. So then I was stuck in some town where they were all looking for revenge. And they got it, kept on getting it until a staff almost muted one for arguing that it wasn't camping, 20+ deaths down the road. Thank goodness you couldn't de-level from mastered back then.

HEY You know what I don't see on the map that would make walking back from graveyards a breeze!? Railways and canals! Minecarts and boats go super fast, but nooooooo those take effort to create and in the case of rails, maintain from griefers. Take the time that you spend on the forums, and go make a rail line.
I plan on connecting several waterways that should make walking back to Braavos easier.

Well said

 

[arcanegrove]

Indeed

 

[MajorasMask]

You are the one off topic, as what was once a discussion about "just a few suggestions" has become a thread about bringing back bed spawning. An idea that makes no more sense now than it did the last time you spoke of it. Since you continue to deflect, instead of addressing any of the arguments against it.I say have at. Please continue your senseless rant. I will however leave you with this. Having to go to GY when you die makes people afraid of death. If you claim to make the server more hardcore by lessening that fear, you are I fear misguided.

I'd love to talk about kingdoms, spawn and the dynamic map. People have not asked about that, only beds. Which is why we're discussing beds. Being afraid of death isn't ''hardcore''. It's just pointless, as it won't encourage people to PvP/Raid /Fight Back in a hardcore manner.

-Snip-

With regards to bed camping, i've suggested a reason to combat this. (/remove bed spawn)

As for rails/canals, they are all great ideas. However, getting back to your town (and then your house, then items) would still be difficult. I could walk to Paragon from the graveyard, but there is no point, because I would die on the way there (most of the time, raiders hang around either the graveyard or the town itself, killing anyone trying to get back in). I could use my railway, but it would still take a longer time, thus making it less effective as a strategy to combat raiders.

Beds would be much better, because PvP would be able to immediately commence again, without any delay (ok, sure, you'll still have to gather some items/tools). It is this delay which makes PvP boring. It's less about fighting and more about getting back.

I could agree with the Bed spawning idea for PVP, but for the RPG aspect, it wouldnt make any sense if you could just respawn in a random Bed. Also, why do you have to bring up the Bed spawning idea again, after all the "Bring back Bed spawn" threads were closed?

I talked about this in the main post. Kainzo/Danda said they didn't want bed camping. I've offered a solution to this, which I would like their opinion on.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

I'd love to talk about kingdoms, spawn and the dynamic map. People have not asked about that, only beds. Which is why we're discussing beds. Being afraid of death isn't ''hardcore''. It's just pointless, as it won't encourage people to PvP/Raid /Fight Back in a hardcore manner.

"Being afraid of death isn't "hardcore"" So are you trying to say that going "Oh hey, I might die. Hah, I wont give a fuck because I cant lose anything but my gear and I just spawn right at my chests to re-gear" is hardcore, then?

I talked about this in the main post. Kainzo/Danda said they didn't want bed camping. I've offered a solution to this, which I would like their opinion on.

So you pretty much want to argue with previously stated opinions from staff?

 

[Scycor]

It seems to me that the major issue in the other post is "Bed camping creates to many PE's" and such. Well, what if we just make it legal instead? That way people won't PE it, and it will make people actually put their bed in a good place. Also if it would be possible, you could make it so if you kill someone in the duration of like 30 seconds from when they spawn it gives the attacker heavy slow downs and such to give the other person a chance to run.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

It seems to me that the major issue in the other post is "Bed camping creates to many PE's" and such. Well, what if we just make it legal instead? That way people won't PE it, and it will make people actually put their bed in a good place. Also if it would be possible, you could make it so if you kill someone in the duration of like 30 seconds from when they spawn it gives the attacker heavy slow downs and such to give the other person a chance to run.

Why create so many problems just to bring back an old and boring vanilla feature, when you can just have less campable and RPG-ish Graveyards?

 

[MajorasMask]

"Being afraid of death isn't "hardcore"" So are you trying to say that going "Oh hey, I might die. Hah, I wont give a fuck because I cant lose anything but my gear and I just spawn right at my chests to re-gear" is hardcore, then?


So you pretty much want to argue with previously stated opinions from staff?

Ha ha, it's difficult to use the term hardcore. I believe that being able to get back to your items/re-gear upon death is hardcore, as it allows continuous PvP, rather than ''One shot'' PvP, whereas dying matters enough to make the entire situation a waste of time.

''So you pretty much want to argue with previously stated opinions from staff?''

No, i'd like to know their opinion on my suggestion. I didn't suggest ways to combat bed camping in the previous thread. I recall that someone (I think either Kainzo, Danda or a programmer) said that if a solution to bed camping was found/created, then they'd bring back beds under that system. I have offered, what I believe, to be a suitable solution, which I would like their opinion on. Kainzo did say he would look into it, which is why i'm bring it up.

 

[MajorasMask]

It seems to me that the major issue in the other post is "Bed camping creates to many PE's" and such. Well, what if we just make it legal instead? That way people won't PE it, and it will make people actually put their bed in a good place. Also if it would be possible, you could make it so if you kill someone in the duration of like 30 seconds from when they spawn it gives the attacker heavy slow downs and such to give the other person a chance to run.

No there is no need to make it legal. Just make it avoidable. I've suggested /remove bed spawn. If it can be done, then this should get rid of any potential bed camping, as people would be able to escape.

Why create so many problems just to bring back an old and boring vanilla feature, when you can just have less campable and RPG-ish Graveyards?

I don't think it was boring. To me, it had more strengths than weaknesses. Plus, the camping issue could easily be resolved.

 

[Scycor]

Snip

Well you see it may just be an "old and boring vanilla Minecraft feature" to you, but for many who have been here when the beds were out they loved it... Except for the people who didn't put it in the right spot. Also, I have no problem with graveyards, I just thought id'e throw in a suggestion.

I know Kainzo has told all of us in the past that people dislike change and that we need to learn to just move on sometimes or else people would get no where (something along those lines). However I just can't shake this feeling of not being able to raid with this graveyard system. Before players would raid places for many many hours, and a lot of people would have fun on both sides. But now since you rarely have a chance to do fend off your town it's not very enjoyable.

Believe me, beds or not I will still play HC, though I would just prefer if we had them back. Furthermore, were you even there when beds were in HC Multi?

 

[EvilThor]

I think it's funny how, the two people who are arguing against bed spawning never experienced how it formed the HC pvp (due to the date they joined).

Also, this is a dicussion witch can go on for ever and ever..
majoras, me and scycor (probably more as well) want it back, and multi and 2jgay (probaly more as well) do not want it.
We can sit here and talk about this until the internet break down, but nothing gonna happend, before we get more valid points and more opinions from other players or staff.

Do not think you know everything about something you have not tried..

 

[Fjordsen]

Why create so many problems just to bring back an old and boring vanilla feature, when you can just have less campable and RPG-ish Graveyards?

Actually, bed spawning was in before you joined HC and it added lots of tactical things in PvP, warfare and raids. Not to mention the stupid 15 min wait on Recall cooldown after dying from raiders.

Raids on HC right now is, go in kill 1-3 people while the rest hide, then leave because the guys you killed won't come out to fight again because they don't want to wait a possible 15 min recall CD. Back when bed spawning was here, the raiders would have LWC's in some cave not far from the place they raided along with beds, whenever they died they re-geared and went in again to help their friends. Same for defenders, back then they would regroup at once and push on for yet another fun team battle to save their town. Now they just log off after death or go to spawn.

 

[Dsawemd]

1. With regards to bed camping, i've suggested a reason to combat this. (/remove bed spawn)

2. As for rails/canals, they are all great ideas. However, getting back to your town (and then your house, then items) would still be difficult. I could walk to Paragon from the graveyard, but there is no point, because I would die on the way there (most of the time, raiders hang around either the graveyard or the town itself, killing anyone trying to get back in). I could use my railway, but it would still take a longer time, thus making it less effective as a strategy to combat raiders.

3. Beds would be much better, because PvP would be able to immediately commence again, without any delay (ok, sure, you'll still have to gather some items/tools). It is this delay which makes PvP boring. It's less about fighting and more about getting back.

4. I talked about this in the main post. Kainzo/Danda said they didn't want bed camping. I've offered a solution to this, which I would like their opinion on.

Disclaimer: I added the numbers to this quote to address your points individually.

1. There will always be a way to abuse a spawn point within your town, even your house. I have fought Alexhoff1 the evil wizard several times in my own town plot this map. And allowing people to Choose if they spawn in a bed or a graveyard? I will not devote any energy thinking of ways to exploit that, but I guarantee that with GTP and a few other components, exploiting it for a variety of reasons would be possible.

2. Graveyard no pvp zones were increased recently to match build limits , the point being that you can buy redstone at the border of no-pvp safely, so you should never be camped at a graveyard unless your recall is in that same graveyard area. Towns have enough secret entrances, and the ability for you to sneak back in underground bc it is your region, that being camped outside the region is avoidable.

3. We can agree, more chances to fight is good.
You are on the side of Defense. You want defenders (the people with access to lots of gear) to set respawn points in their own region. A raid usually would not carry multiple sets of top tier armor/weapons even back when they could set up a bed base.
I am on the side of Offense. I think that a region gives defenders enough of an advantage, especially with closed Undercities, dirt cages, etc. I think that if the raid can kill the defenders within their town, they should have a few minutes before they have to worry about that person again, even if that time is only while the defender waits for mana to recall. Walking from a graveyard can only be a maximum of what, 1000 blocks? With a boat, that may as well be 200 blocks maximum, and with powered rail lines for the larger towns the only difficult part of getting back to town would be managing the cart shops.

4. Oh look, this entire discussion wasn't needed.

 

[MajorasMask]

1. I am unaware of any ways in which you could exploit bed spawns. If you could state ways in which you could do so, then say, because I really can't see it.

2. I think that both the raiders and the raided would benefit from this. The raided would be able to come back quickly, regear and go out and fight. They would actually have the potential to kick raiders out of their town, and can do so quickly if they want to. From the perspective of a raider, this would also be good; because you'd actually be given what you came for: PvP. You wouldn't sit in a town for hours waiting for people to come out, you'd actually get to do something. The fear of people coming out TOO quickly (to kill you) shouldn't be an issue if you are well prepared. Like what EtKenn said; PvP would regain stategic elements.

3. And you're right; recalls, canals and secret entrances can all help you get back to a town. However, it would always take much more time, effort and hastle to do so and simply using a bed. The whole idea of being able to fight again and again is to give everyone the chance to actually be successful. Low-leveled players get to constantly attack high-leveled raiders, and low-level raiders constantly get to attack high-leveled citizens (presuming the raider sets up a bed nearby).

4. ''No, i'd like to know their opinion on my suggestion. I didn't suggest ways to combat bed camping in the previous thread. I recall that someone (I think either Kainzo, Danda or a programmer) said that if a solution to bed camping was found/created, then they'd bring back beds under that system. I have offered, what I believe, to be a suitable solution, which I would like their opinion on. Kainzo did say he would look into it, which is why i'm bringing it up.''

 

[Alator]

The suggestion has been made, and both sides have had their say. Reign in the dogs, boys

 

[j2gay]

The suggestion has been made, and both sides have had their say. Reign in the dogs, boys

Yes I agree

 

[BeasttRecon]

Beds yeh yeh

 

[Jasquan]

The suggestion has been made, and both sides have had their say. Reign in the dogs, boys

TBH, I'd say clean up this thread and let's start on a new - and not get into meaningless discussions because one side didn't like the first idea.

 

[Moorcaste]

I would love to see my old region, provided it was still a protected region.