Suggestion 1.9 Class Balance Feedback thread.

[FaZeAlpine]

Sword

(0.625 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Wood / Stone Axe

(1.25 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Iron Axe

(1.10 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Gold / Diamond Axe

(1.00 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Shovel

(1.00 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Wood / Gold Hoe

(1.00 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Pickaxe

(0.85 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Everything else stays the same.

 

[Bingy1218]

Necro has darkritual for a reason. None of the casters need buffs, they are the strongest tree right now.

The only issue with dark ritual is the health sacrifice for dark ritual gives you realistically only 100 mana because you need to use drainsoul right off it so it isn't a big impact on you and even then drainsoul refunds a pretty minute amount of health (around 80).

I get that necro is capable of spamming this but at the cost of losing the majority of their life to get about 4 skills off whereas wizard refunds around 50-60% of their mana instantly with no backlash (no warmup, no health loss, no debuff or anything) and can go straight back into firing away. The 2minute cooldown isn't all that much because after that mana pool expires i imagine whatever was happening would be over.

Wizard either needs some nerf to replenish in which they have a 3second warmup, or a blindness and slow debuff upon casting it
Or Necro needs some kind of slow mana drain skill on their opponent?

 

[Lordofon]

Give us tipped arrows, maybe restrict some of them if they're "OP". Ehmmm, give alchemists some access to Dragon's Breath as well. Rangers won't be the only class to benefit from this, but so will Bard, Ninja, etc.

 

[radicater11]

The only issue with dark ritual is the health sacrifice for dark ritual gives you realistically only 100 mana because you need to use drainsoul right off it so it isn't a big impact on you and even then drainsoul refunds a pretty minute amount of health (around 80).

I get that necro is capable of spamming this but at the cost of losing the majority of their life to get about 4 skills off whereas wizard refunds around 50-60% of their mana instantly with no backlash (no warmup, no health loss, no debuff or anything) and can go straight back into firing away. The 2minute cooldown isn't all that much because after that mana pool expires i imagine whatever was happening would be over.

Wizard either needs some nerf to replenish in which they have a 3second warmup, or a blindness and slow debuff upon casting it
Or Necro needs some kind of slow mana drain skill on their opponent?

The thing is, all of Wizard's damage must be carried out on the spot. Necro, on the other hand, uses dots. A Necro shouldn't be spamming skills, they should be applying their dots, then kiting around with a few bonespears, drainsoul, and kiting skills while their mana regens and they wait for their dots to expire. I've never seen a Necro run out of mana using this method, and I've pvped often with a different Necros every map now for the last 3 maps.

 

[Delikin]

Give us tipped arrows, maybe restrict some of them if they're "OP". Ehmmm, give alchemists some access to Dragon's Breath as well. Rangers won't be the only class to benefit from this, but so will Bard, Ninja, etc.

It would only be Ninja/Ranger/Enlightened classes actually. This would seriously wreck the balance that these classes have as there are timers on how many potions you can use on yourself, but there wouldn't be with these arrows. This would effectively turn these classes into high damage burst healers with the healing arrows, and just massively increase the damage with harming.

 

[LordZelkova]

It would only be Ninja/Ranger/Enlightened classes actually. This would seriously wreck the balance that these classes have as there are timers on how many potions you can use on yourself, but there wouldn't be with these arrows. This would effectively turn these classes into high damage burst healers with the healing arrows, and just massively increase the damage with harming.

None of them do anything.
Healing pots effectively do 0 damage due to damage + healing
The damage arrows have a super minor bonus
Regen is worthless
So is poison.

 

[Irishman81]

Sword

(0.625 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Wood / Stone Axe

(1.25 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Iron Axe

(1.10 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Gold / Diamond Axe

(1.00 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Shovel

(1.00 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Wood / Gold Hoe

(1.00 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Pickaxe

(0.85 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Everything else stays the same.

Alright, assuming Faze's math is right, this is what the left click damage should be adjusted to for each class:

Diamond Sword:
Ninja: 86.25
Runeblade: 65
Paladin: 51.25
Samurai: 76
Bard: 48.75

Diamond Axe:
Berserker: 117.6
Dreadknight: 104
Ranger: 94
Shaman: 92
Pyromancer: 112

Diamond Shovel:
Dragoon: 121.6

Gold Hoe:
Wizard: 74
Beguiler: 72
Necromancer: 72
Cleric: 74
Druid: 78
Bloodmage: 66

 

[0xNaomi]

None of them do anything.
Healing pots effectively do 0 damage due to damage + healing
The damage arrows have a super minor bonus
Regen is worthless
So is poison.

I'll make CustomPotion support tipped arrows eventually (once I finally look into if I can/how to do so)

 

[Kainzo]

I dont like adding damage to the casters like that.. they are already not punished... their items are 0.25-0.50 delay already, why add to that?

 

[Dakinara]

I dont think balancing left click damage is going to be as simple as scaling it up 100% for offset in swing timer. Consider most fights involve a lot of chasing and not constantly applied hits every 0.5s (immunity timer). Giving classes massive damage buffs on that initial hit may infact make left click a lot more powerful part of combat than it was pre 1.9, and personally i dont think id like that (obviously havent played with it yet). It should be boosted compared to what it was pre 1.9. but i dunno if it should be boosted in exact value to match change in swing timer.

that said i think weapons that dont use swing timers are not balanced in comparison either, so idk. Will probably have to shift things around a lot before stuff feels balanced again, and honestly should probably get rid of all custom weapons that dont have swing timers if balance is the #1 concern.

 

[FaZeAlpine]

I dont like adding damage to the casters like that.. they are already not punished... their items are 0.25-0.50 delay already, why add to that?

The idea of increasing the damage of the gold hoe was because the attack speed was only 1 second according to Minecraft Wiki - Damage, compared to the 0.25 - 0.5 second attack speeds of the diamond, stone, iron, and wood hoes. I agree though they might be a bit high, I think they could be reduced by 10% - 20% I say.

 

[Irishman81]

I dont like adding damage to the casters like that.. they are already not punished... their items are 0.25-0.50 delay already, why add to that?

I agree, just wanted to have everything on paper if we needed it.

I dont think balancing left click damage is going to be as simple as scaling it up 100% for offset in swing timer. Consider most fights involve a lot of chasing and not constantly applied hits every 0.5s (immunity timer). Giving classes massive damage buffs on that initial hit may infact make left click a lot more powerful part of combat than it was pre 1.9, and personally i dont think id like that (obviously havent played with it yet). It should be boosted compared to what it was pre 1.9. but i dunno if it should be boosted in exact value to match change in swing timer.

that said i think weapons that dont use swing timers are not balanced in comparison either, so idk. Will probably have to shift things around a lot before stuff feels balanced again, and honestly should probably get rid of all custom weapons that dont have swing timers if balance is the #1 concern.

We're going to push these numbers to test and see how they affect things, and adjust accordingly. I agree about the items with no set attack speed, we may have to force disciple, bard, pyro, and ninja to use a different weapon.

 

[FaZeAlpine]

Keep in mind the 1.9 attack system makes it more likely to do either one of two things:

1. Left click before the attack is fully charged to output 100% damage, in turn dealing less damage.
2. Attacking with too much time delay between each fully charged attack, resulting in them dealing less damage than the potential damage output.

So even if some of the damage values might seem high, in reality the actual DPS would most likely be quite a bit less than the theoretical DPS.
Meaning that it would be harder to keep up the same DPS as previously experienced in 1.8, and on top of that they're still misses.

 

[Dakinara]

Keep in mind the 1.9 attack system makes it more likely to do either one of two things:

1. Left click before the attack is fully charged to output 100% damage, in turn dealing less damage.
2. Attacking with too much time delay between each fully charged attack, resulting in them dealing less damage than the potential damage output.

So even if some of the damage values might seem high, in reality the actual DPS would most likely be quite a bit less than the theoretical DPS.
Meaning that it would be harder to keep up the same DPS as previously experienced in 1.8, and on top of that they're still misses.

I think whats proposed is good for balancing melee vs melee. Its pretty dumb right now how strong ninja in particular is vs other melees, and probably why like half the server is ninjas. Only thing im thinking is this change could also make all melee stronger against range / kiting classes where dps isnt as important as damage per hit / burst damage usually. But could always buff some of the squishy ranged classes armor slightly if it feels unbalanced in that scenario post change to compensate.

 

[Surefier]

Sword

(0.625 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Wood / Stone Axe

(1.25 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Iron Axe

(1.10 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Gold / Diamond Axe

(1.00 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Shovel

(1.00 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Wood / Gold Hoe

(1.00 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Pickaxe

(0.85 / 0.5) x (1.8 class specific damage) = scaled damage

Everything else stays the same.

So your saying, Samurais will have less damage than goons?

 

[0xNaomi]

So your saying, Samurais will have less damage than goons?

Swords have less attack cooldown than shovels, simple as that.

 

[Surefier]

Swords have less attack cooldown than shovels, simple as that.

Noone paces their hits making that completely pointless. I think it should just go back to 1.8 days

 

[0xNaomi]

Noone paces their hits making that completely pointless. I think it should just go back to 1.8 days

If you don't pace your attacks, they do very little damage and all of these numbers are meaningless due to them not representing what you're doing.
It's been stated, repeatedly, that we are not reverting. Adapt or find somewhere else.

 

[Delikin]

Alright, assuming Faze's math is right, this is what the left click damage should be adjusted to for each class:

Diamond Sword:
Ninja: 86.25
Runeblade: 65
Paladin: 51.25
Samurai: 76
Bard: 48.75

Diamond Axe:
Berserker: 117.6
Dreadknight: 104
Ranger: 94
Shaman: 92
Pyromancer: 112

Diamond Shovel:
Dragoon: 121.8

Gold Hoe:
Wizard: 74
Beguiler: 72
Necromancer: 72
Cleric: 74
Druid: 78
Bloodmage: 66

Yeahhhh that damage for dragoons/casters is way too high to be balanced. These calculations would make more sense if skills/armor/mobility weren't a factor. But they are.

 

[Irishman81]

Yeahhhh that damage for dragoons/casters is way too high to be balanced. These calculations would make more sense if skills/armor/mobility weren't a factor. But they are.

The casters I agree, but I want to test out goon on the test serer before I completely disregard it. If the attack speed is really that slow to warrent that much left click damage then I don't think it will be too bad, we'll see.