Suggestion 1.9 Class Balance Feedback thread.

[radicater11]

I'd like to mention the fact that mortalwound and mightyblow have what seems like a one block range on Samurai. I really don't think it's intended, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[LordZelkova]

I'd like to mention the fact that mortalwound and mightyblow have what seems like a one block range on Samurai. I really don't think it's intended, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Mortal Wound is a 2 block range, though MightyBlow should be 3.

 

[RegularHumanMode]

Shields:
Paladin
Cleric
Dreadknight

Dual Wields:
Ninja
Runeblade
Pyromancer
Shaman



Heavy Two Handers:
(we'll need to see how to do this and what to change based on the code when its released)
Dragoon
Samurai
Berserker

Twohand Staves:
Wizard/Necro
Bloodmage


Gliders:
All
--------

Twohanding and duel wielding is cool and all, but not everyone needs it.

Also how are we going to get ahold of gliders now? Will the end be open to us and reset every so often? That could work as the enderdragon is a cool fight now and that place actually has loot. You might need to disable the chest spawns though, there's some ungodly armor in those.

So here's where I disagree with you:

Dreadknight I think deserves Two-Handed. It's a different brand of tankiness than Paladin, plus they would feel too similar if they both had shields. The key difference is in the basic concepts for each class. The Paladin has a shield to symbolize protection. A Dreadknight should feel more aggressive. This is symbolized by a large weapon which is meant to deal damage, but can still effectively guard against attack.

Not sure how I feel about Cleric. Maybe Druid as a protector of nature with the shield. Beguiler I can kind of imagine skills revolving around shield image.

Shaman should have a shield. I kind of envision the classic WoW image of a Shaman with a shield which gives spell and casting buffs. Honestly I don't know what Shaman plays like though, I've never even really gone against someone who uses it.

Zerk should totally be dual-wield. When you think of Berserker you think fast and wild strikes, not slower powerful ones. I imagine the Orc spinny thing from Skyrim with the dual-wield axes.

Lets get some good criticisms going!

Post what you hate, love, what you think needs changing, etc.

We are not removing the 1.9 system.

Shields:
Paladin
Beguiler
Druid
Cleric

Dual Wields:
Berserker
Pyromancer
Ninja
Ranger
Bard
Disciple
Shaman

Heavy Two Handers:
(we'll need to see how to do this and what to change based on the code when its released)
Dragoon
Dreadknight
Samurai
Runeblade

Twohand Staves:
Wizard/Necro
Bloodmage


Gliders:
All

This isn't exactly balance related, but what if you made some of the more DPS focuses casting classes have the option of dual-wield, but instead of an offhand weapon it could be something along the lines of a tome that gives stat increases when held. Would look like an enchanted book, golden apple, stick, torch, or lantern. If it makes balancing weird I get it, but I think it would be cool.

 

[Kainzo]

So here's where I disagree with you:

Dreadknight I think deserves Two-Handed. It's a different brand of tankiness than Paladin, plus they would feel too similar if they both had shields. The key difference is in the basic concepts for each class. The Paladin has a shield to symbolize protection. A Dreadknight should feel more aggressive. This is symbolized by a large weapon which is meant to deal damage, but can still effectively guard against attack.

Not sure how I feel about Cleric. Maybe Druid as a protector of nature with the shield. Beguiler I can kind of imagine skills revolving around shield image.

Shaman should have a shield. I kind of envision the classic WoW image of a Shaman with a shield which gives spell and casting buffs. Honestly I don't know what Shaman plays like though, I've never even really gone against someone who uses it.

Zerk should totally be dual-wield. When you think of Berserker you think fast and wild strikes, not slower powerful ones. I imagine the Orc spinny thing from Skyrim with the dual-wield axes.

This isn't exactly balance related, but what if you made some of the more DPS focuses casting classes have the option of dual-wield, but instead of an offhand weapon it could be something along the lines of a tome that gives stat increases when held. Would look like an enchanted book, golden apple, stick, torch, or lantern. If it makes balancing weird I get it, but I think it would be cool.

I like the item of tomes in the offhand, very interesting... hmm

 

[LightTheAbsol]

I like the item of tomes in the offhand, very interesting... hmm

we realm of the mad god now

 

[o0ONeroO0o]

Lets get some good criticisms going!

Post what you hate, love, what you think needs changing, etc.

We are not removing the 1.9 system.

Shields:
Paladin
Beguiler
Druid
Cleric

Dual Wields:
Berserker
Pyromancer
Ninja
Ranger
Bard
Disciple
Shaman

Heavy Two Handers:
(we'll need to see how to do this and what to change based on the code when its released)
Dragoon
Dreadknight
Samurai
Runeblade

Twohand Staves:
Wizard/Necro
Bloodmage


Gliders:
All

All of the caster classes, (or classes that DON'T revolve around using attack delay, ex. Shears, fists, discs etc..)
definitely need a good nerf. The rest of the classes that use swords, shovels, axes, etc. that relies on the attack delay crap have a HUGE disadvantage now when it comes to this attack delay stuff.

Either the casters need a nerf, or the other attack delay reliant classes need a buff.

As a suggestion, I would change the attack delay to be faster
just an alternative to find that middle ground where aura hackers are still struggling, and players can still kill casters.


Papa bless with these changes.

 

[iAlchemist]

Shields:
Paladin
Cleric
Dreadknight

Dual Wields:
Ninja
Runeblade
Pyromancer
Shaman



Heavy Two Handers:
(we'll need to see how to do this and what to change based on the code when its released)
Dragoon
Samurai
Berserker

Twohand Staves:
Wizard/Necro
Bloodmage


Gliders:
All
--------

Twohanding and duel wielding is cool and all, but not everyone needs it.

Also how are we going to get ahold of gliders now? Will the end be open to us and reset every so often? That could work as the enderdragon is a cool fight now and that place actually has loot. You might need to disable the chest spawns though, there's some ungodly armor in those.

Eh, I can't exactly agree. Zerker should be in dual wield segment for "thematic" reasons, and I think pyromancer might actually need the shield more. Someone said something about that earlier, but I don't recall who.

 

[Dwarfers]

Not really a combat suggestion, but I think Necro's HellGate should be obtained at lvl 45 or 50 maybe.


EDIT: I think I changed my mind. Maybe leaving it at 60 will make it more fun and interesting since it would be harder to get?

 

[_AlphaReaper_]

I think you should keep current cooldowns for ALL weapons and buff warriors/rogues weapons damage. And make axes deal more damage than swords because they have a longer cooldown. I also like the Tomes idea for casters, it sounds great.

 

[Dakinara]

i think if your going to keep the 1.9 mechanics, all classes need to have their primary weapon shifted to something that uses the 1.9 mechanics. Its going to be very odd to balance otherwise. will also require a lot of pvp testing to see how much damage of left click attacks should be boosted from class to class. I think the mechanic is interesting but will lead to very unbalanced start until things can be worked out properly.

 

[Kainzo]

i think if your going to keep the 1.9 mechanics, all classes need to have their primary weapon shifted to something that uses the 1.9 mechanics. Its going to be very odd to balance otherwise. will also require a lot of pvp testing to see how much damage of left click attacks should be boosted from class to class. I think the mechanic is interesting but will lead to very unbalanced start until things can be felt worked out properly.

I can agree with this.

 

[Maximillion_V_Midn]

I would love to see Dual-wielding factor in at some point.

I also want to see the Attack Cooldown functions in full effect for PvP. People who say 1.9 could break PvP, rely to heavily upon button-mashing to kill their enemies.

I possess no such handicap. Being a Tactical fighter as I am, I proudly embrace the new Attack Speeds feature.

 

[Nikewade]

I would love to see Dual-wielding factor in at some point.

I also want to see the Attack Cooldown functions in full effect for PvP. People who say 1.9 could break PvP, rely to heavily upon button-mashing to kill their enemies.

I possess no such handicap. Being a Tactical fighter as I am, I proudly embrace the new Attack Speeds feature.

Really the only duel wielding things that can work are shields and maybe a benefit from just holding an item in your off hand (Which would be cool. aka holding another sword in your off hand would grant a greater attack speed). The part about people saying that 1.9 breaks pvp.. eh they are kind of right. The 1.9 pvp system is really really... bad. They wanted to make it more of a strategized type of system but all they've done is make the fights longer and less strategical. If anything, it's made for people with a slower reaction time or people (No offence) that need more time to think. And I get it, more time leads to being able to make up more complex strategies but really if you are such a "tactical" fighter, you should have the skill to make fast decisions. Even then, the way Mojang actually went about doing the whole system is bad. The way you fight just seems clunky and tedious. *Left click.. look at the guy for a few second... left click.. look at the guy a few more second.. left click* In a fight this also seems like a lot more time xD I'ts just plain dumb. Now don't get me wrong, this is where herocraft can step in and take what mojang has given us, and make it 1000 times better . I fully support the 1.9 mechanic in herocraft as long as it's corrected to some of the ways I've stated before .

 

[Maximillion_V_Midn]

I agree that, for all things to be equal, the system has to be balanced out so that people using (for example) Flint, or Hoes, or Blaze Rods (etc) will be bound by the same effects, or - at the very least - have those weapons nerfed so that they will, in effect, be on-par with their Vanilla-Weapon counterparts.

On the old Map, I could spam-strike a player with a Diamond Axe, even if they were several times my superior, because there was no Attack Cooldown. While I enjoyed the power-trip (I only PvP in self-defense, so I got to feel all self-righteous and whatnot lol), abused en-masse by folks who like to misuse/abuse Plugin features (like a certain Cable Guy who will remain unnamed, and I don't mean Jim Carrey) could SEVERELY unbalance the game.

And, sheesh....if fights last longer, so what? Fights shouldn't be "Instant-gratification". They should be heated, intense, nerve-wracking, and require the utmost of your mental faculties. If every PvPer was chivalrous, refrained from Button-Mashing, and devised actual combat tactics (aside from "ooh, lets place bounties, but have our friends claim them, so they can place the next bounty" exploiter doofs), I wouldn't care whether the system changed or stayed the same.

But we're not dealing - with a few exceptions - with Tacticians, Chivalrous PvPers and people who think out and time their attacks. Most Minecraft PvPers are looking for a "quick fix" a le Button Mashing.

At least, that's been what I have personally observed, and experienced. You often know the types by how often their PKing flashes across the Server Broadcast system.

 

[Nikewade]

I agree that, for all things to be equal, the system has to be balanced out so that people using (for example) Flint, or Hoes, or Blaze Rods (etc) will be bound by the same effects, or - at the very least - have those weapons nerfed so that they will, in effect, be on-par with their Vanilla-Weapon counterparts.

On the old Map, I could spam-strike a player with a Diamond Axe, even if they were several times my superior, because there was no Attack Cooldown. While I enjoyed the power-trip (I only PvP in self-defense, so I got to feel all self-righteous and whatnot lol), abused en-masse by folks who like to misuse/abuse Plugin features (like a certain Cable Guy who will remain unnamed, and I don't mean Jim Carrey) could SEVERELY unbalance the game.

And, sheesh....if fights last longer, so what? Fights shouldn't be "Instant-gratification". They should be heated, intense, nerve-wracking, and require the utmost of your mental faculties. If every PvPer was chivalrous, refrained from Button-Mashing, and devised actual combat tactics (aside from "ooh, lets place bounties, but have our friends claim them, so they can place the next bounty" exploiter doofs), I wouldn't care whether the system changed or stayed the same.

But we're not dealing - with a few exceptions - with Tacticians, Chivalrous PvPers and people who think out and time their attacks. Most Minecraft PvPers are looking for a "quick fix" a le Button Mashing.

At least, that's been what I have personally observed, and experienced. You often know the types by how often their PKing flashes across the Server Broadcast system.

I totally get how you can see that the "old" pvp system was more for the wanting to get a quick pvp fix type of people. And like I said I totally see how Mojang was trying to make this system be less like that? They did a horrible job. I'm sorry but even as a person that can see both sides and yes I would like to think that I most of the time try to agree with both sides of ANY argument, I still cant see how people can like this system in 1.9. Waiting to strike at the right moment? Putting in this "cooldown" type hit system they have now was not the way to go. The way it's set up now is just... bad? I'm not sure how else to explain it. It makes no sense. If anything ping is still an issue.. This does not solve that AT ALL. People with lower ping will still get first hits, it will always be like this. Fast clickers will most likely still do good? Most to all fast clickers / pvpers I've seen are adaptable (Like my self) and are pretty good at strategy. That's what pvp was! I'm sorry but most people now just think of pvpers as JUST fast clickers but you have no idea whats going thru our minds whilst pvping.

Throwing all of this aside, this was a post to tell @Kainzo what we like / hate etc.. etc... so we don't want to have this post to be all of us arguing about who likes the old pvp system and who thinks it's bad blah blah. He want's to know how to make the new pvp system BETTER. He stated that he is NOT getting rid of 1.9 regardless xD.

 

[LarryDeCable]

I agree that, for all things to be equal, the system has to be balanced out so that people using (for example) Flint, or Hoes, or Blaze Rods (etc) will be bound by the same effects, or - at the very least - have those weapons nerfed so that they will, in effect, be on-par with their Vanilla-Weapon counterparts.

On the old Map, I could spam-strike a player with a Diamond Axe, even if they were several times my superior, because there was no Attack Cooldown. While I enjoyed the power-trip (I only PvP in self-defense, so I got to feel all self-righteous and whatnot lol), abused en-masse by folks who like to misuse/abuse Plugin features (like a certain Cable Guy who will remain unnamed, and I don't mean Jim Carrey) could SEVERELY unbalance the game.

And, sheesh....if fights last longer, so what? Fights shouldn't be "Instant-gratification". They should be heated, intense, nerve-wracking, and require the utmost of your mental faculties. If every PvPer was chivalrous, refrained from Button-Mashing, and devised actual combat tactics (aside from "ooh, lets place bounties, but have our friends claim them, so they can place the next bounty" exploiter doofs), I wouldn't care whether the system changed or stayed the same.

But we're not dealing - with a few exceptions - with Tacticians, Chivalrous PvPers and people who think out and time their attacks. Most Minecraft PvPers are looking for a "quick fix" a le Button Mashing.

At least, that's been what I have personally observed, and experienced. You often know the types by how often their PKing flashes across the Server Broadcast system.

Who are you, Mr. make spawn less laggy

 

[Kainzo]

*GUFFAW*

 

[Pugglez_]

I don't get why Beguiler or Shaman got a shield. As it is, Beguiler has a lot of skills that can disengage itself from close combat. So why give it another protection for its weakness when it already has a huge amounts of AoE damage and CC capabilities.

And if you have never fought a Shaman before, it is one of the most annoying classes to get close to. It has FirestrikeTotem, EngulfingTotem, ForceTotem, and Windgale to keep players off of it. Just cycling between FirestrikeTotem and EngulfingTotem is enough to keep you off bay. And if you do get to the Shaman and deal some damage to him, he can just heal backup with Cleansespirit, Healingsurge, and kiting around his HealingTotem while using Windgale to push people off of him while kiting.

 

[radicater11]

I don't get why Beguiler or Shaman got a shield. As it is, Beguiler has a lot of skills that can disengage itself from close combat. So why give it another protection for its weakness when it already has a huge amounts of AoE damage and CC capabilities.

And if you have never fought a Shaman before, it is one of the most annoying classes to get close to. It has FirestrikeTotem, EngulfingTotem, ForceTotem, and Windgale to keep players off of it. Just cycling between FirestrikeTotem and EngulfingTotem is enough to keep you off bay. And if you do get to the Shaman and deal some damage to him, he can just heal backup with Cleansespirit, Healingsurge, and kiting around his HealingTotem while using Windgale to push people off of him while kiting.

I am confused as to why they got it as well, but I just gave up trying to understand long ago.

 

[Leo2596]

Since the balance team doesn't like to talk right now ninja and dragoon both have the ability to get out of every single situation with 5 seconds on their jump and backflip this needs to be increased to 7 or 8 seconds.

Another thing as of now disciple damage needs an increase because it take a very long time to kill classes with low tier armor with its current damage being at 37.