Suggestion 1.9 Class Balance Feedback thread.

[Kainzo]

Lets get some good criticisms going!

Post what you hate, love, what you think needs changing, etc.

We are not removing the 1.9 system.

Shields:
Paladin
Beguiler
Druid
Cleric

Dual Wields:
Berserker
Pyromancer
Ninja
Ranger
Bard
Disciple
Shaman

Heavy Two Handers:
(we'll need to see how to do this and what to change based on the code when its released)
Dragoon
Dreadknight
Samurai
Runeblade

Twohand Staves:
Wizard/Necro
Bloodmage


Gliders:
All

 

[0xNaomi]

All weapon damage needs re-scaling to accomodate for the new hit timers.
Right now they're unchanged (aside from not gaining per level) which makes slower hitters worse at attacking for pretty much any reason.

No, I don't have a "what to", they all need to be decided together and I wouldn't lie and say I know all the classes enough to give numbers.

 

[FaZeAlpine]

Is it possible for us to remove the new PVP attacking system while staying 1.9? (If the majority agrees of course.)
The attack changes basically threw out months of balancing straight out the window, and it feels so clunky and just anti PVP.

 

[Nikewade]

Is it possible for us to remove the new PVP attacking system while staying 1.9? (If the majority agrees of course.)
The attack changes basically threw out months of balancing straight out the window, and it feels so clunky and just anti PVP.

This would most likely be possible as there are already many plugins to do this as well as simple gamemode rules to set. ALTHO, it would be waaaay cooler if the use of the 1.9 hitting speeds were used in some way. Via it be having each class have different attack speeds no matter the weapon (Would involve coding). This means you would have for example a tank with x amount of attack speed with a diamond sword and a ninja would have a different attack speed with the same weapon (Most likely faster with less damage then the tank). If this was not possible (as in too much work) simply changing the attack speeds / damages per weapon may work.. it may involve changing the classes and what weapons they can use tho.

 

[iAlchemist]

Is it possible for us to remove the new PVP attacking system while staying 1.9? (If the majority agrees of course.)
The attack changes basically threw out months of balancing straight out the window, and it feels so clunky and just anti PVP.

Listen FaZe, I usually agree with your opinions on balance and stuff, but I don't like the idea of removing the attack speed mechanics of 1.9. I think we should be embracing the changes of the new versions instead of fighting them off, and I think this new addition adds a lot to the table for PvP. I understand that it would take along time to balance, and a lot of work, but it this new PvP allows for a more methodical approach to melee combat.

That being said, I'm a fan of Dark Souls PvP, and this version of minecraft began to emulate that (not exactly, but it has the same methodical combat system of trading hits and strafing becomes more vital.)

 

[Nikewade]

Listen FaZe, I usually agree with your opinions on balance and stuff, but I don't like the idea of removing the attack speed mechanics of 1.9. I think we should be embracing the changes of the new versions instead of fighting them off, and I think this new addition adds a lot to the table for PvP. I understand that it would take along time to balance, and a lot of work, but it this new PvP allows for a more methodical approach to melee combat.

That being said, I'm a fan of Dark Souls PvP, and this version of minecraft began to emulate that (not exactly, but it has the same methodical combat system of trading hits and strafing becomes more vital.)

I do agree with this kind of . The minecraft pvp system atm is really dumb. Like plain and simple it doesn't make sense. For pve maybe? eh? I don't know if you have ever been in a pvp fight with this new style, but it's really boring and just tedious. All 1.9 adds is more time to the fight? I get what they were TRYING to do I guess.. More time in the fight = more time to think / more strategy. Sadly, they didn't do it well at all :/. But that being said like you said above.. Embracing what 1.9 has given us would be a better way to go about it as its new, fresh, and you can do a lot with it for an RPG type server .

 

[iAlchemist]

I do agree with this kind of . The minecraft pvp system atm is really dumb. Like plain and simple it doesn't make sense. For pve maybe? eh? I don't know if you have ever been in a pvp fight with this new style, but it's really boring and just tedious. All 1.9 adds is more time to the fight? I get what they were TRYING to do I guess.. More time in the fight = more time to think / more strategy. Sadly, they didn't do it well at all :/. But that being said like you said above.. Embracing what 1.9 has given us would be a better way to go about it as its new, fresh, and you can do a lot with it for an RPG type server .

Woah Nikewade, I remember you when I first joined the server! Cool to see you again.

And thanks for the feedback.

 

[Kainzo]

Shields:
Paladin
Beguiler
Druid
Cleric

Dual Wields:
Berserker
Pyromancer
Ninja
Ranger
Bard
Disciple
Shaman

Heavy Two Handers:
(we'll need to see how to do this and what to change based on the code when its released)
Dragoon
Dreadknight
Samurai
Runeblade

Twohand Staves:
Wizard/Necro
Bloodmage


Gliders:
All

 

[FaZeAlpine]

Woah Nikewade, I remember you when I first joined the server! Cool to see you again.

And thanks for the feedback.

I mean it's not entirely due to the difficulty of balancing the classes. The fact that the update just broke a lot of our unique PVP mechanics (fireballs, bows, etc.) is really a turn off for me, but my opinion is also heavily rooted in how it feels to play.

Old Minecraft PVP was quite fast pace, and dynamic, and it definitely had a higher skill cap compared to the really slow, and just not fluid attacking system. Clicking fast while maintaining proper aim was key for success, and it has been the bread and butter for PVP for years now. There's a solid reason why large PVP servers are still staying 1.8 (Badlion, Kohi, MCSG).

 

[LordZelkova]

Shields:
Paladin
Beguiler
Druid
Cleric

Dual Wields:
Berserker
Pyromancer
Ninja
Ranger
Bard
Disciple
Shaman

Heavy Two Handers:
(we'll need to see how to do this and what to change based on the code when its released)
Dragoon
Dreadknight
Samurai
Runeblade

Twohand Staves:
Wizard/Necro
Bloodmage


Gliders:
All

Curious:

Why are Druid and Beguiler getting shields, when Bard/Pyro could actually put them to use.
Why is Bard Dual Wielding when it's not a Rogue (Seriously, it's a support class, not a Rogue).

Druid and Beguiler are Kiting classes (Druid more-so than Guiler), so giving them a shield strengthens them in the place they're supposed to be weaker, up close and bursted.

But Pyro is similar to Paladin, it gets close to dish out damage, giving it a shield would let it do its job better, and instead of being a meh-hybrid Melee-Caster, it cold actually tank a bit and deal some Damage.

Lastly, why are Staves being classified as 2 handed, but only for Wiz/Necro/BM?
Catalysts and Staves should swing at the same speed, unless called for by that class.

 

[Areorah]

The axe seems to do some pretty pathetic damage. Iron Axe vs Iron Sword shows some big difference due to the attack speed itself.

 

[Jrr_]

I would like the cooldown on swinging disabled

EDIT just saw your post about not removing anything RIP

@FaZeAlpine I agree

 

[Nikewade]

I would like the cooldown on swinging disabled

EDIT just saw your post about not removing anything RIP

@FaZeAlpine I agree

Yea I totally get your guys's opinions on removing the cooldown of swinging but think of it this way. If you want to swing fast and are good at it, go a ninja type class which will most likely have the same hitting speed as 1.8 or even faster. For people that do not like the fast hitting and just want slow / more damaging strikes, go a class that is not as fast as ninja. Only using ninja as a base example.

 

[Nikewade]

If we want Herocraft to be more than just a regular old pvp server with some classes.. Lets go ahead and try the new system and see how it goes. I think it will be really fun personally, it brings so much to the table . All I'm saying @Kainzo is that if we make it to where everyone has something they like, be it ninja with fast hitting and lower damage (Most likely normal mc hit speed or even faster) and say tanks or something else with slower hitting but more damage, I think it will work out.

 

[LightTheAbsol]

Shields:
Paladin
Cleric
Dreadknight

Dual Wields:
Ninja
Runeblade
Pyromancer
Shaman



Heavy Two Handers:
(we'll need to see how to do this and what to change based on the code when its released)
Dragoon
Samurai
Berserker

Twohand Staves:
Wizard/Necro
Bloodmage


Gliders:
All
--------

Twohanding and duel wielding is cool and all, but not everyone needs it.

Also how are we going to get ahold of gliders now? Will the end be open to us and reset every so often? That could work as the enderdragon is a cool fight now and that place actually has loot. You might need to disable the chest spawns though, there's some ungodly armor in those.

 

[Nikewade]

Shields:
Paladin
Cleric
Dreadknight

Dual Wields:
Ninja
Runeblade
Pyromancer
Shaman



Heavy Two Handers:
(we'll need to see how to do this and what to change based on the code when its released)
Dragoon
Samurai
Berserker

Twohand Staves:
Wizard/Necro
Bloodmage


Gliders:
All
--------

Twohanding and duel wielding is cool and all, but not everyone needs it.

Also how are we going to get ahold of gliders now? Will the end be open to us and reset every so often? That could work as the enderdragon is a cool fight now and that place actually has loot. You might need to disable the chest spawns though, there's some ungodly armor in those.

I think you forgot a few? I'm not sure if you meant to or not but I agree with this ^

 

[Kurrelgyre]

Would a bard dual wield discs? Does a bard have to time their hits? Does efficiency on an item allow for more hits? I've been trying to have these answered in game. Would appreciate some insight.

 

[LordZelkova]

Would a bard dual wield discs? Does a bard have to time their hits? Does efficiency on an item allow for more hits? I've been trying to have these answered in game. Would appreciate some insight.

Efficiency doesn't have any affect on attack speed, unless we do that ourselves.
All classes SHOULD time their hits if they want to do max melee damage. However some class, Kiters mostly, wont mind spamming since it will allow for more knockback.

 

[Kurrelgyre]

Efficiency doesn't have any affect on attack speed, unless we do that ourselves.
All classes SHOULD time their hits if they want to do max melee damage. However some class, Kiters mostly, wont mind spamming since it will allow for more knockback.

Thank you. I hope one day discs or other odd weapons for classes become enchantable. Having to rely on mob drops make the class a lot more difficult right now.

 

[LightTheAbsol]

I think you forgot a few? I'm not sure if you meant to or not but I agree with this ^

Left some out because they really didn't make since to duel wield. Changed one or two from or to duel/2hand/shield.
Like, runeblade has the lightest armor, why doesn't it duel wield? And if you were a runeblade, wouldn't you want 2 swords for 6 runes instead of 1 for 3?
Why would zerk duel wield? Isn't the point of berserker to break down shields and rush someone? Wouldn't you need a strong axe for that?
Dreadknight is the counterpart to paladin in spirit, so it should get a shield as well. It would also make up for huge lack of mobility.

All mages should twohand their staffs. Why wouldn't they?

On a side note, runeblade not being able to duel wield is probably a cop-out to codeing runes for both swords