1.9 Balance

[Jrr_]

Alright we need to get this going,

First off I would like to talk about buffing left click damage on classes that rely on melee. This will have to be balanced base on the swing timer of each weapon and the damage it does.

please discuss your thoughts

 

[Kainzo]

Alright we need to get this going,

First off I would like to talk about buffing left click damage on classes that rely on melee. This will have to be balanced base on the swing timer of each weapon and the damage it does.

please discuss your thoughts

I also think we need to remove weapons from classes that dont have a default swing time (Minus the casters that have already low low wep dmg?)

 

[Jrr_]

I also think we need to remove weapons from classes that dont have a default swing time (Minus the casters that have already low low wep dmg?)

They all have default swing times, just varies on each weapon. Blaze rods are able to be swung at a faster rate than swords, that means we just wont change the damage on blaze rods

 

[0xNaomi]

Also, the increase in weapon damage per level was removed by @Kainzo before the map started, to keep people more even...
Except, the base damage was not buffed in any way.

This means all in-hand weapon damage is level 1's damage from previous maps, forever.

So currently, melee (barring ones that are instant) are double-screwed while casters (aside from projectile oddities) are just as strong.
Definitely need to re-do the numbers, on probably just about everything.

 

[Trazil]

Is there a way to see all the numbers side by side? I know the wiki has them all, idk if they are update though and /hero tools doesn't show them anymore.

I would much rather something like /hero gear show the current thing then you can get more specific with /hero armor or tools if possible.

 

[0xNaomi]

Is there a way to see all the numbers side by side? I know the wiki has them all, idk if they are update though and /hero tools doesn't show them anymore.

I would much rather something like /hero gear show the current thing then you can get more specific with /hero armor or tools if possible.

Or maybe some crazy command like /hero stats.
Considering the screen tools or armor gets you says stats but is different from the actual stats command...

 

[Trazil]

Is there any way we could have a balance meeting today in Ts, irc or discord? @Balance Team really kinda need to balance classes with 1.9

 

[Trazil]

If not I'll write some stuff here now.

Classes with weapons unaffected by 1.9:
Bard, disciple, pyro, and ninja.
Classes rendered almost unplayable right now:
Berserker, dreadknight, and any other class with an extremely long timer that does not make up for it with ability damage such as pyro which is currently pretty much restricted to an axe because of there are almost 0 blaze rods.

@Kainzo is there any way to give each class a custom swing time for the same item? Say Dk could use a one-handed axe and a shield, anyway to just make them have a different swing time than say a berserker without needing custom items?

 

[Irishman81]

Is there any way we could have a balance meeting today in Ts, irc or discord? @Balance Team really kinda need to balance classes with 1.9

I would like to, however as I've mentioned I'm out of the country and will not be back for at least another 12 days. I'm happy to help with numbers and other stuff like that on the forums but I have no access to a computer or teamspeak/discord

 

[0xNaomi]

I would like to, however as I've mentioned I'm out of the country and will not be back for at least another 12 days. I'm happy to help with numbers and other stuff like that on the forums but I have no access to a computer or teamspeak/discord

^ This.
As much as I'd like a vocal meeting (and would try to attend one) I feel like we'll be missing too many people.
We could proceed here, if we could decide which avenue to try and pursue.

Without code changes to probably Heroes itself (which I can't do), all we can do is change the damage of things.
Granted, since the per-lvl is gone, we really need to change the damage of things anyway.

 

[Irishman81]

^ This.
As much as I'd like a vocal meeting (and would try to attend one) I feel like we'll be missing too many people.
We could proceed here, if we could decide which avenue to try and pursue.

Without code changes to probably Heroes itself (which I can't do), all we can do is change the damage of things.
Granted, since the per-lvl is gone, we really need to change the damage of things anyway.

Ok I think I've been out of the loop for too long. So what do you mean by the per-level? Health, left click damage, mana, all of them? Just a little confused.

 

[0xNaomi]

Ok I think I've been out of the loop for too long. So what do you mean by the per-level? Health, left click damage, mana, all of them? Just a little confused.

1.9 added the hit timers (which we're keeping in at least some form) and the update did this:

Also, the increase in weapon damage per level was removed by @Kainzo before the map started, to keep people more even...
Except, the base damage was not buffed in any way.

This means all in-hand weapon damage is level 1's damage from previous maps, forever.

So currently, melee (barring ones that are instant) are double-screwed while casters (aside from projectile oddities) are just as strong.
Definitely need to re-do the numbers, on probably just about everything.

 

[Jrr_]

Just to get a small amount of balance out without doing anything too drastic I propose this with people not happy with their class
Number represents left click increase!
Dragoon -> +6
Paladin -> +3
DK -> +4
Berserker -> +4
Samurai -> +5
Runeblade -> +4

I believe making these small changes would help in the short term, while we wait for @Irishman81 to get back and do things more in depth

@Balance Team @Kainzo

 

[FaZeAlpine]

Just to get a small amount of balance out without doing anything too drastic I propose this with people not happy with their class
Number represents left click increase!
Dragoon -> +6
Paladin -> +3
DK -> +4
Berserker -> +4
Samurai -> +5
Runeblade -> +4

I believe making these small changes would help in the short term, while we wait for @Irishman81 to get back and do things more in depth

@Balance Team @Kainzo

Ranger -> (Bow Right Click) +50
Ranger -> (Axe Left Click) +10

 

[Kainzo]

A base increase for melees is probably necessary and needed due to the double nerf of melee and increases.

The above list seems fine

 

[Leo2596]

I feel that irish not being here is not a valid reason for the balance TEAM to not have a meeting.

 

[Kainzo]

I feel that irish not being here is not a valid reason for the balance TEAM to not have a meeting.

The community (and team) need to make use of the forums too, several of these changes are number games, not "well I feel this should be that" discussions.

 

[Trazil]

Alright well here is my balance rant I guess,
Dragoon -> +6
Paladin -> +3
DK -> +4
Berserker -> +4
Samurai -> +5
Runeblade -> +4
These seem fine, but I also think classes with weird weapons (Disciple, Bard etc) should see a tiny nerf. Maybe something like
Bard -> -4
Disciple -> -2
Ninja -> Shears -5 (The shortened melee cd on top of backstab is very strong)
These classes mainly have become a lot stronger with the changes to melees in 1.9, Pyro can also use a blaze rod but I don't know enough about the class to suggest a change to the damage.

This last part isn't so much 1.9 balance but is something that I feel should be looked into. Right now healers really are not viable. The targeting is terrible and you cannot namebind. It's the same thing so skills like necro's battery which is also instant so you need to be exact to not hit the wrong teammate and waste your mana. I suggest that these changes be reverted. They just make healing not viable at all for pvp and very hard for pve.

I know that it's more "hardcore" and skill intensive to use this targeting system instead of just namebinds and in most mmos you can't just name bind something, but we don't have the same kinds of partyframes that other games have.

 

[Jrr_]

Alright well here is my balance rant I guess,
Dragoon -> +6
Paladin -> +3
DK -> +4
Berserker -> +4
Samurai -> +5
Runeblade -> +4
These seem fine, but I also think classes with weird weapons (Disciple, Bard etc) should see a tiny nerf. Maybe something like
Bard -> -4
Disciple -> -2
Ninja -> Shears -5 (The shortened melee cd on top of backstab is very strong)
These classes mainly have become a lot stronger with the changes to melees in 1.9, Pyro can also use a blaze rod but I don't know enough about the class to suggest a change to the damage.

This last part isn't so much 1.9 balance but is something that I feel should be looked into. Right now healers really are not viable. The targeting is terrible and you cannot namebind. It's the same thing so skills like necro's battery which is also instant so you need to be exact to not hit the wrong teammate and waste your mana. I suggest that these changes be reverted. They just make healing not viable at all for pvp and very hard for pve.

I know that it's more "hardcore" and skill intensive to use this targeting system instead of just namebinds and in most mmos you can't just name bind something, but we don't have the same kinds of partyframes that other games have.

I don't see a point in nerfing the others when we are buffing the ones weak atm. It's not like they haven't been affected at all, they also do less damage than before the update, so I see no reason to nerf them...making them even more worse against casters @Trazil

 

[Jrr_]

Alright well here is my balance rant I guess,
Dragoon -> +6
Paladin -> +3
DK -> +4
Berserker -> +4
Samurai -> +5
Runeblade -> +4
These seem fine, but I also think classes with weird weapons (Disciple, Bard etc) should see a tiny nerf. Maybe something like
Bard -> -4
Disciple -> -2
Ninja -> Shears -5 (The shortened melee cd on top of backstab is very strong)
These classes mainly have become a lot stronger with the changes to melees in 1.9, Pyro can also use a blaze rod but I don't know enough about the class to suggest a change to the damage.

This last part isn't so much 1.9 balance but is something that I feel should be looked into. Right now healers really are not viable. The targeting is terrible and you cannot namebind. It's the same thing so skills like necro's battery which is also instant so you need to be exact to not hit the wrong teammate and waste your mana. I suggest that these changes be reverted. They just make healing not viable at all for pvp and very hard for pve.

I know that it's more "hardcore" and skill intensive to use this targeting system instead of just namebinds and in most mmos you can't just name bind something, but we don't have the same kinds of partyframes that other games have.

Also with name binding, I don't mind it too much as a cleric. Like you said it makes things a bit harder, but I didn't really enjoy the 15 minute long fights thanks to name binding of full heal etc. If anything, I think just some skills should be reverted to a radius heal, non targeted, say 5 blocks max to all party members. (Not for all skills though)