Suggestion [Townships]

[Beau_Nearh]

My thoughts;

So, after messing about with townships for a good amount of time I've made a conclusion on where it stands currently with the recent patches. From my point of view, it's currently dead in the water (I'm sorry but it is, me as well as others have all agreed on specific points. some members have even sold their SR's or are contemplating selling/ salvaging them).

Problems;

+The new costs to create SR's or even upgrade SR's have become too costly
- costs 2700 souls to create a tribe that makes a profit of 70 souls per day (if regents are supplied, not including tax)
- profit made increases to 85 souls if an egg is brought for 1000 souls and placed in the council room region
- costs 3700 to upgrade from a maxed housing tribe to a maxed housing hamlet (profit of 175 per cycle, not including tax)
-profit made increases to 235 souls per cycle if 2 eggs are brought (2000 souls) and placed in sitting chamber
-note; keep in mind this doesn't take any other regions into account (farms, factories, warehouse, ect)
- ect

+Progress doesn't indicate work done, more dependant on money made
-basically it feels like no progress in being made and it's all just one big money grind (very tedious)

+Considering the upkeeps needed for the SR, the soul forges seem too specific as well as restricting
- Forces players to choose a location based on biomes rather than actually nice building spots
- really does limit the use for a SR if they have soul forges that other SR's cannot convert to souls

+Unlock costs for specific regions add more restrictions to towns with limited funding
- Warehouse unlock = 750 souls, build cost = 500 (total of 1250)
- Graveyard unlock = 1500 souls, build cost = 1000 souls (total of 2500)
- Ward crystal unlock = 350 souls, build cost = 250 souls (total of 550)
- power generation structures costs 850 souls to build per one (grocer also costs 500 souls to unlock)
- power cells cost 300 souls for the first tier, 500 for the second tier

+Seems to be leaning to more tax dependant for growth
- currently no form for members to gain any income from SR's or regions (unless ownered but mayor doesn't receive cash)
- for progress to be made, taxes may have to be quite high for the mayor to gain funding for progression
- leaves mayors with very little choices when town members can't keep up with the tax rate

+defending SR's are too costly considering how much time/ effort/ cash has been funnelled into it
- defence cannon unlock = 1000 souls, build cost = 600 (total of 1600 souls)
- arrow turret unlock = 500 souls, build cost 500 souls (total 1000 souls)
- hospital unlock = 500 souls, build cost = 400 souls (total 900 souls)
- siege cannon unlock cost 800 souls, build cost 100 souls (total of 900 souls apposed to 1600 souls for a defence cannon)

+Starting up as a fresh SR (tribe) seems too hard to justify money needed
- carrot farms are restricted to hamlet+
- no real infrastructure to aid with the upgrade from tribe --> hamlet
- no justification to spend so much money on defending the town with arrow turret costs currently (500 unlock, 500 build)
- very player dependant on raising the funds needed to upgrade

+[Place holder for future points]

Notes;

+This isn't supposed to come across as a negative post, more constructive
+I do appreciate all the work that has been put into developing townships

 

[LordZelkova]

+The new costs to create SR's or even upgrade SR's have become too costly
- costs 2700 souls to create a tribe that makes a profit of 70 souls per day (if regents are supplied, not including tax)
- profit made increases to 85 souls if an egg is brought for 1000 souls and placed in the council room region
- costs 3700 to upgrade from a maxed housing tribe to a maxed housing hamlet (profit of 175 per cycle, not including tax)
-profit made increases to 235 souls per cycle if 2 eggs are brought (2000 souls) and placed in sitting chamber
-note; keep in mind this doesn't take any other regions into account (farms, factories, warehouse, ect)
- ect

We have a T3 town and money is incredibly easy to make. Also, the costs of SR's didnt go up. The cost of the region was simply placed onto the Central Structure

+Progress doesn't indicate work done, more dependant on money made
-basically it feels like no progress in being made and it's all just one big money grind (very tedious)

Again, money is stupidly easy to make. But I will agree that progress doesnt look made unless you produce a shit ton of money

+Considering the upkeeps needed for the SR, the soul forges seem too specific as well as restricting
- Forces players to choose a location based on biomes rather than actually nice building spots
- really does limit the use for a SR if they have soul forges that other SR's cannot convert to souls

Nothing to really say on this one other than try top find a partner (I know this isnt always possible)

+Unlock costs for specific regions add more restrictions to towns with limited funding
- Warehouse unlock = 750 souls, build cost = 500 (total of 1250)
- Graveyard unlock = 1500 souls, build cost = 1000 souls (total of 2500)
- Ward crystal unlock = 350 souls, build cost = 250 souls (total of 550)
- power generation structures costs 850 souls to build per one (grocer also costs 500 souls to unlock)
- power cells cost 300 souls for the first tier, 500 for the second tier

Money is easy, though I don't see the point of high unlock costs followed by high build costs (My best guess would be as a way to get money out of the economy but it is really easy to make money)

+Seems to be leaning to more tax dependant for growth
- currently no form for members to gain any income from SR's or regions (unless ownered but mayor doesn't receive cash)
- for progress to be made, taxes may have to be quite high for the mayor to gain funding for progression
- leaves mayors with very little choices when town members can't keep up with the tax rate

Again, the town can generate a ton of money, we have a negative tax income and are perfectly fine

+defending SR's are too costly considering how much time/ effort/ cash has been funnelled into it
- defence cannon unlock = 1000 souls, build cost = 600 (total of 1600 souls)
- arrow turret unlock = 500 souls, build cost 500 souls (total 1000 souls)
- hospital unlock = 500 souls, build cost = 400 souls (total 900 souls)
- siege cannon unlock cost 800 souls, build cost 100 souls (total of 900 souls apposed to 1600 souls for a defence cannon)

I agree here. Defense costs feel really overpriced for too little of a use

+Starting up as a fresh SR (tribe) seems too hard to justify money needed
- carrot farms are restricted to hamlet+
- no real infrastructure to aid with the upgrade from tribe --> hamlet
- no justification to spend so much money on defending the town with arrow turret costs currently (500 unlock, 500 build)
- very player dependant on raising the funds needed to upgrade

Tribes shouldn't be the same price as a T3 town.
Give Farms to Tribe, reduce cost of T1 town so it's more approachable

My 2 cents as someone who's been working with the plugin

 

[Watermelon_01]

I think that the costs for the central regions for towns should be staggered, less for the tribes more for the mets. It's difficult to make money if you don't have a town and don't get good drops from ores and mobs. Ex. People say that they can make like 500s in a couple hours of mining but I'm a miner and I'd be lucky to get 100s in 4 hours.

 

[Alator]

I'm always willing to look into the costs of things. Towns are designed to take an initial investment that will pay off in the long run if properly managed. Larger towns can crate a ridiculous amount of money, and we need a way to counter the ultra-efficient.

Net daily housing income (after tax):

• tribe: 80
• Hamlet: 240
• Village: 440
• Town: 1015
• City: 2395
• Metropolis: 4000

Wars (when working) are one way to do this. Having money-sink type structures are another.

 

[Beau_Nearh]

Thankyou for the feedback. @minimike96

Well, for the first quote I'm trying to get the point across that getting up to that tier of SR is extremely hard in terms of funding. I've looked into the best case scenario for those tiered towns (I'll happily produce figures for each one if needed) but they are heavily being out weighed from the worse case possible (housing only as well as all the unlock costs/ build costs for essential regions). Note; I was aware of the actual costs of SR's not changing. Wanted to create this post after the recent changes to address the plugin in it's current form.

In terms or money making, I agree with you that it's easy to make money but only if you are willing to spend hours at a time doing tedious tasks such as mining or dungeon raiding (the scale of which Were having to grind is putting me as well as a few other mayors off continuing with townships as a whole I'm afraid) ((I just currently see townships as a money sink with very few benefits when comparing to a shelter)).

For the negative tax point, this is great but in real terms only a viable option if the SR/ regions gets to a point where gaining as much money possible isn't a top priority and giving back to SR members is. During the growth of SR's, this option wouldn't even be considered (my person opinion).

From my point of view, each tier of SR should have options in terms of infrastructure to help promote growth. Investing in a good infrastructure should be (my personal opinion) the top priority of any SR that wants to expand and grow. At the moment, as long as you got a good amount of cash in the back. Infrastructure isn't as needed as it should be.

Thank again for the feedback!

 

[Beau_Nearh]

I'm always willing to look into the costs of things. Towns are designed to take an initial investment that will pay off in the long run if properly managed. Larger towns can crate a ridiculous amount of money, and we need a way to counter the ultra-efficient.

Net daily housing income (after tax):

• tribe: 80
• Hamlet: 240
• Village: 440
• Town: 1015
• City: 2395
• Metropolis: 4000

Wars (when working) are one way to do this. Having money-sink type structures are another.

The actual payout of these SR's are decent in terms of the regents your providing but I'm more concerned about the transition to a higher tier SR as well as the actual costs to create a functional SR at that tier. In my opinion, it seems a lot harder to upgrade from a tribe to a hamlet apposed to a city upgrading to a metropolis. Wars however do seem like a good money sink for those higher tiered towns but this may create a problem in which already well set up SR's have the ability to easily siege lower tiered SR's (all about the money).

 

[Watermelon_01]

I'm always willing to look into the costs of things. Towns are designed to take an initial investment that will pay off in the long run if properly managed. Larger towns can crate a ridiculous amount of money, and we need a way to counter the ultra-efficient.

Net daily housing income (after tax):

• tribe: 80
• Hamlet: 240
• Village: 440
• Town: 1015
• City: 2395
• Metropolis: 4000

Wars (when working) are one way to do this. Having money-sink type structures are another.

I know that towns can make lots of money if managed properly but the purpose of my previous post was to state that each towns' central region should be priced based off of the money that they can make simply from housing. To have a need to get a council room for a tribe for 2000s without a town imo is ridiculous, especially since the Hamlet's sitting chamber costs the same, even though the tribe has income coming in at a steady rate. Now for the player that lets say has a tribe created regardless of how he/she did it in the first place but cannot come on the server to play for more time than it takes to restock the houses with food and maintain the regions in general. He has no members to help out and has to run it on his own. Just to get to a Hamlet, it will cost at a bare minimum of 3200s to get the necessary regions and a total of 40 days to get there. I believe that that is too much to pay. Even for me, it will require me to get all my members to give me their souls for the next two or so weeks and me to play at least 2 hours every day to get the money in as short a time as is possible. Either a tribe needs to gain more housing or a reduce in the sitting chamber and the council room's costs needs to be put into place to make this more reasonable. I can see towns like a town and village taking a lot of structures to build and more money because they have more players than can play for more time and get the money but for those smaller ones that can't raise that money by many easy means (since many players can't play like 18 hours a day, unlike some people) those costs should be reduced, at least until they have the ability to gain money through other means.

 

[LordZelkova]

I'm on mobile so I won't be quotting like my last post but:

Money made via townships is so easy. Trade route bam done. Shacks filled with carrots. Active members and a group that talks to each other can make plenty of cash via townships itself.

I do agree that a tribe needs to be cheaper than a T3 town though.

I also think unlock costs should be removed for shacks and farms as they are essential for low tier towns to try and make progress.

 

[Watermelon_01]

Money made via townships is so easy. Trade route bam done. Shacks filled with carrots. Active members and a group that talks to each other can make plenty of cash via townships itself.

1. Some people actually want to make progress without waiting a month to make the money with housing.
2. Trade route with what? Tribe members require quarries and such to be made with basic mats for THEMSELVES and they won't get regions like soul producers for souls and warehouses to make mass production of easy mats, freeing up more regions for soul making.
3. Some people aren't like others than can spend like 8 hours a day playing.
4. This isn't criticism but how exactly does talking make you money?
Also, notice my mention of the cost for a tribe without a town's production. /\[/QUOTE]

 

[Beau_Nearh]

I'm on mobile so I won't be quotting like my last post but:

Money made via townships is so easy. Trade route bam done. Shacks filled with carrots. Active members and a group that talks to each other can make plenty of cash via townships itself.

I do agree that a tribe needs to be cheaper than a T3 town though.

I also think unlock costs should be removed for shacks and farms as they are essential for low tier towns to try and make progress.

Trade routes;

+only available for hamlet+
+very restricting in town placement (to creat the soul forges ect that is)

Housing regions;

+The scale in which it is to current progress to a higher tier town would nowhere near be met from housing regions, currently it will take a tribe with max housing regions 52 cycles/ days to upgrade to a hamlet with max housing regions (doesn't take tax into account, doesn't take region costs/ unlock costs of other regions into account, doesn't take anything else into account really)

Unlock costs;

It's not so much the unlock costs on regions such as farms. More so the costs of infrastructure regions (warehouse, graveyard ect) as well as the costs to actually defend your town (wards, defence cannons, arrow turrets ect).

Note;

There should be at least one region that each tier of SR can build to help with the upkeep/ maintaining of it. This could come in the form of an extra region to raise funds form specific materials (think low low low tier soul forges) or even farms that produce regents needed for housing.

 

[jan9f]

What I've noticed is that yes, it's hard when you start. But if you just push and grind souls for a while to get to the Hamlet stage and make the soul forge buildings, everything is much, much easier after that. For example, yesterday I made ~1k souls in less than one hour selling my Soul forge items and redeeming soul prisms at a bazaar. It's a hard grind at first, yes, but it gets much easier. As for the defense turrets/cannons, I agree with you on that one.

 

[LordZelkova]

1. Some people actually want to make progress without waiting a month to make the money with housing.
2. Trade route with what? Tribe members require quarries and such to be made with basic mats for THEMSELVES and they won't get regions like soul producers for souls and warehouses to make mass production of easy mats, freeing up more regions for soul making.
3. Some people aren't like others than can spend like 8 hours a day playing.
4. This isn't criticism but how exactly does talking make you money?
Also, notice my mention of the cost for a tribe without a town's production.

1: Houses are passive slow easy money. Like voting, if people don't want free money that's their problem.
2: Why do they need a quarry? Go mining for your mats, it isnt that hard to mine for an hour or two
3: Active =/= 8 hours, as long as you put some time and energy into the town you are active. Pay your taxes, help build it, etc. You don't need to no life HC like some of us have done
4: Not talking specifically, it's more about proper management. If you properly control your town money is easy.

Trade routes;

+only available for hamlet+
+very restricting in town placement (to creat the soul forges ect that is)

Like others have said, the initial grind is hard, and it should be lowered (I think the prices were just set to get them out). And they aren't that restrictive if you manage your town and plan for things in advance

Housing regions;

+The scale in which it is to current progress to a higher tier town would nowhere near be met from housing regions, currently it will take a tribe with max housing regions 52 cycles/ days to upgrade to a hamlet with max housing regions (doesn't take tax into account, doesn't take region costs/ unlock costs of other regions into account, doesn't take anything else into account really)

Housing is not the only source of money, they are simply an easy method.

Unlock costs;

It's not so much the unlock costs on regions such as farms. More so the costs of infrastructure regions (warehouse, graveyard ect) as well as the costs to actually defend your town (wards, defence cannons, arrow turrets ect).

Note;

There should be at least one region that each tier of SR can build to help with the upkeep/ maintaining of it. This could come in the form of an extra region to raise funds form specific materials (think low low low tier soul forges) or even farms that produce regents needed for housing.

I think the defense & infrastructure should be expensive. Why? To encourage people to use the plugin to it's most. Things that are 100% NEEDED to progress should be cheaper/have no unlock (I know a lot of the central structures and SR's have a 1s unlock but i mean farms, shacks, etc). Getting past T1 & 2 takes a ton of personal money right now. If you aren't prepared to dump your own small fortune into it, getting to T3 itself is hard.

 

[jan9f]

I too found that space was very restrictive. However, if you put the soul forge buildings, quarries, etc. underground, this isn't an issue. Members want their houses to look decent, so put those above-ground. You and other town staff are the only ones to really see/frequently use the soul forge buildings, so it's not like it's a big deal if they're underground.