Suggestion The Problems With TNT, PVP, PVE, and So Much More

[Boomer779]

History of TNT: TNT has had quite the diverse history on this server in particular. There have been extended periods of it being both enabled and disabled, leading to two very different outcomes in server growth, raiding, and longevity. The two periods that stand out the most, however are the current map and the map previous to this one. This map, you could buy one piece of TNT for 8 medals of vengeance which were obtained through PvP. The map previous to this TNT was purchasable (for the same price), but it did not blow up the contents of chests or other item storage containers and was bugged, so for the majority of the map no one used it. There were issues with both these systems, however, I think that TNT as a whole in its current state has a negative impact on server, PVE, and community life. In respect to the map with TNT disabled, the economy was much more stable. What i mean by this is that we had very little raiding/huge PVP battles and more PvE stabilization through growth of merchant towns and just an increased player base. When TNT was not enabled we retained more people for a longer time AND kept the economy balanced between those who PVP and raid towns and those who didn't. All towns grew at the same rate and those who took conquest castles would gain a slight upper hand in resources, but would not greatly surpass those who PVE. If we look at our current map with TNT enabled we see a stark difference. Low player count, low town count, and within the towns that exist the ones that PVP and raid have much higher town level and riches than those who PVE. When PVE towns dont want to come out and fight, the PVP towns will blow them up and take their resources. Even then, there are many cases where that is not enough and they simply use TNT and tools to destroy the landscape around a town. There are many posts that already describe how the regen mechanic that is used with TNT is broken and not only doesnt fix the landscape, but does not generate it with the same blocks. But, if a PVE town wanted to retaliate they probably couldn't. Not only would they have to PVP (which they already don't want to do) to get medals to purchase TNT, they have to buy at least 16 TNT if they even want to make a dent in some towns. When Minecraft was established it was formed on a PVE environment, and although PVP became a part of Minecraft it was a derivative of the PVE experience. We should, as a server, first focus on making the game enjoyable for those who PVE then add opportunities in which PVP players could excel. Kainzo has many times posted stats on how many players join every new map, but then leave. This is due to the fact that we have set up an environment that supports PVP players and not PVE players which is what a majority of a potential new playerbase would be.

TNT Both In PVP and PVE: When someone purchases TNT the only intention in their mind is to find a base of someone else and raid it for its treasure. Currently, there is no other beneficial use of TNT that a PvE player would want it for. So, as it stands TNT is simply a mass tool of destruction, easily bought by PvP players, used by PvP players to raid PvE players, and has no reasonable counters. I would love to see uses for TNT outside of PVP purposes and a single miner skill.

Pricing of TNT: The current price of TNT is 8 medals of vengeance. As previous stated the only way to get these medals is to PVP. As someone who both has tried to PvP and knows others who do not excel at it, 8 medals of Vengence is a high price (to pay to a PVE player) for a single piece of TNT. However, to those veterans on the server who know how each class works 8 medals is NOTHING. They get these medals from simple daily killings and end up building up a bulk storage of both these medals and TNT. This does not even take into account that those who use TNT are most likely in a PVP town which will be building up a considerable amount of medals that go into TNT. The current pricing of TNT is to far in the favor of the PVP players and needs to be readjusted. Here are a few examples that I believe would be acceptable. These go in order from least favorable to most. These examples are based on the principle that we should cater to the PVE experience first and if PVP players can gain a slight upper hand through PVP so be it.
1. Coins in Exchange for TNT. This would not be your normal 100c for one TNT, but rather 5000-10000 coins for a single piece of TNT. This would create an environment that had less TNT circulating within it, but would also allow the PVP players or PVE to get one good raid in on another town per week if a whole town contributed to the action of acquiring TNT.

2.Tokens of Favor for TNT. Once again would ask players to focus more on leveling PVE classes and then go on to raid and PVP. The exchange ratio would be something like 1 Token for 4-5 TNT.

3. Medals of Vengeance/ Gold ingots/blocks to TNT. I know i just spent way too much time saying why medals to TNT is bad,but this has a different meaning to it. What would happen is that you would have a tier system for acquiring TNT. So 64 medals gives you a Token of Vengeance, 5 Tokens of Vengeance give you 5 TNT. However, on the PVE side we would have 64 gold ingots gives you a Token of Gold, 10 tokens of Gold give 5 TNT. Now these numbers may change as we see the new map and economy, but if we are to operate on a strict exchange basis then this may be one of the best ways in my opinion.

4. We take one of the previous exchange methods, but then add a timer. What i mean by this is that we have a time that is set by a timer on the server that every certain number of days (lets say 5), there is a period of time called Ravaging. During this time (which lasts 1-3 hours) the use of TNT is enabled anywhere, anyhow, anywhy. This would be the prime time for PVP towns to gather and go for a raid on an opposing town. There would be a few exceptions, however,. If a town is below a certain rank they cannot be attack and would have immunity. Another exception would be that a town mayor possessing the Apex of Time could use a command which would take the Apex and grant them immunity for that Ravaging, but there would be a cooldown of 2 Ravagings, before another could be used. This would allow for a material that is highly sought after to be traded for security and time for a town to develop its defenses and grow.

Final Remarks: The rules need to be clearer on what is allowed for chest protection. I have heard many admins say placing water over chests is legal, but have also heard that its not. The only way to protect your items should not be obsideon or LWCS Rules need to be dictated on the protection of chests and the boundaries of towns. Overall, the rules need to be reorganized and formatted and i would be more than happy to help that happen if given the opportunity.

In General, I feel as though raiding from PVP players to PVE players or vice versa should only happen at max once a week. The server needs to shift away from the vets who keep coming to the server and needs to cater to the new PVE focused players, so that we can keep the server alive.

Finally, THE APEX OF TIME SHOULD NOT COST 64 MEDALS OF VENGEANCE!!!!!!!!!. This is one of the most endgame things on the server and you give a HUGE advantage to those who PVP by letting them buy it for 64 Medals. THIS IS SO BROKEN I CANT EVEN EXPLAIN IT. If we want another way for PVP players to get Apex of Time than mob grinding than it should be like the token system previously mentioned. Except, its 64 medals into 1 token, and 64 tokens need to be used for one Apex. And i don't even know if this is a balanced amount. I would recommend in general that the Apex of Time ONLY be gotten by mob drops or events.

Edit: Apex will not be 64 medals in final version as confirmed by Kainzo, but I still stand by the exchange system/ mob drops that i mentioned within that mini-rant

 

[what777]

Apex of Time upgraded weapons are pretty useless tbh, I have 1000~ medals, and don't have any upgraded weapons.

 

[Boomer779]

Apex of Time upgraded weapons are pretty useless tbh, I have 1000~ medals, and don't have any upgraded weapons.

I was told they are getting significantly buffed in the next map so my brief touch on them was in regards to that. But thanks for the info!

 

[Yavool]

@Kainzo @Danda @xexorian TNT block destruction should be immediately removed and never brought back. Let towns be towns and thrive as a safe haven, a hub for community, and a place to safely store loot, not as a place for the top 3 populated towns to PVP and raid any level town they wish (as those are the only people who can hold onto the the castle capture points for long enough to get the medals to buy the TNT...the whole system is broken).

Every time someone breaks into my town with TNT, I boycott Herocraft for a minimum of 24 hours as a way to show that I will not support the use of TNT on this server. As I have stated before, my former townfolk refuse to play Herocraft anymore *specifically* because of the TNT block destruction and the pointlessness of even having a town for lack of the aforementioned benefits.

If you really want to prove what the community thinks about TNT, make block destruction optional within each town (with the default being off), and see how many towns actually turn block destruction on so that others may raid them via TNT. I am not a betting man...but I would put the over/under at 1....if even one town said yes, I would be surprised; most definitely, all the rest would cry a resounding "hell no."

Thank you,

-yavool

 

[JupiterRome]

@Kainzo @Danda @xexorian TNT block destruction should be immediately removed and never brought back. Let towns be towns and thrive as a safe haven, a hub for community, and a place to safely store loot, not as a place for the top 3 populated towns to PVP and raid any level town they wish (as those are the only people who can hold onto the the castle capture points for long enough to get the medals to buy the TNT...the whole system is broken).

Every time someone breaks into my town with TNT, I boycott Herocraft for a minimum of 24 hours as a way to show that I will not support the use of TNT on this server. As I have stated before, my former townfolk refuse to play Herocraft anymore *specifically* because of the TNT block destruction and the pointlessness of even having a town for lack of the aforementioned benefits.

If you really want to prove what the community thinks about TNT, make block destruction optional within each town (with the default being off), and see how many towns actually turn block destruction on so that others may raid them via TNT. I am not a betting man...but I would put the over/under at 1....if even one town said yes, I would be surprised; most definitely, all the rest would cry a resounding "hell no."

Thank you,

-yavool

Well yeah obviously if you give people an option where its like "people can blow into your town" or "people can't blow into your town" Of course everyone is going to toggle it off, that doesn't say anything about whether or not its a healthy server mechanic just that the average person would want the safety, If someone is refusing to play the server because of one thing I'd say that rather then making a point by refusing to play they should talk it over and see how other people feel about it, potentially changing their view on it (not saying your town members didn't do this because frankly I don't know the situation) but I think that just quitting because of one mechanic you don't like is really childish and something that instead of making a point is just being a baby.

I honestly feel like TnT is something that herocraft can incorporate into the server and could be really fun for everyone if its done right, but I personally don't think you should get TnT through PvPing because I personally think more player interaction is always better and if someone wants to just PvP, they should be able too, but I think it may increase the longevity of the server and sense of community if they had to interact with others to gain TnT instead of a "I kill things to get TnT to blow into towns to kill/steal things to get more TnT"

I also feel like TnT is pretty pointless overall because of the fact that most people will put water/obsidian around there chest rooms, reguardless of if its allowed or not because we all know theres going to be people that more then likely get away with it because "its the design of their town" or something.

I think right now the server is facing a lot of issues and the next major updates are things that will either breathe life back into the server which has a lower population of active players currently, or it'll do nothing and the server will slowly loose players. I think this is something Kainzo should talk into consideration but overall isn't make it or break it for me personally, but seeing as Its been a while since I've actively played (I didn't really play much this map) I could be 100% wrong in what I'm saying and just be talking out of my ass.

 

[radicater11]

@Yavool To be fair, TNT was made craftable again when Kain removed vanilla restrictions. The spawn shop just hasn't been removed to reflect that. I'd also like to add that there is a plethora of ways to make your chests TNT proof, so simply quitting should not be your first option.
Also, TNT is not the root of our issues here. @Boomer779 You're citing issues that really have nothing to do with TNT, and more to do with the abysmal PvE and non-existent PvP. Even at the beginning of the map when everyone was playing, the only way to get a fight was to TNT into a town or camp dungeons. As for Apex's, they can be crafted by a group of people, as long as you have every profession present. If PvP players have to hold castles for hours to earn an Apex, than PvE players should have to at least put some effort in obtaining it their own way.
Overall, while I respect what you've tried to push forward, we can't keep making this server hold your hand. It needs to challenge you, force you to work, and actually get you angry to be successful. If you want proof of this, read draconis' post on Kain's suggestion thread. He knows more about game design than all of us combined.

 

[Boomer779]

@Yavool To be fair, TNT was made craftable again when Kain removed vanilla restrictions. The spawn shop just hasn't been removed to reflect that. I'd also like to add that there is a plethora of ways to make your chests TNT proof, so simply quitting should not be your first option.
Also, TNT is not the root of our issues here. @Boomer779 You're citing issues that really have nothing to do with TNT, and more to do with the abysmal PvE and non-existent PvP. Even at the beginning of the map when everyone was playing, the only way to get a fight was to TNT into a town or camp dungeons. As for Apex's, they can be crafted by a group of people, as long as you have every profession present. If PvP players have to hold castles for hours to earn an Apex, than PvE players should have to at least put some effort in obtaining it their own way.
Overall, while I respect what you've tried to push forward, we can't keep making this server hold your hand. It needs to challenge you, force you to work, and actually get you angry to be successful. If you want proof of this, read draconis' post on Kain's suggestion thread. He knows more about game design than all of us combined.

Thanks for your opinion and while i agree in some parts i disagree with others. Firstly, in regards to Apex from castles, If castles were changed so that at any time after 20 mins after capture they could be retaken then i might be fine with PVP=Apex, but it would also have to once again be alot of medals for an apex or some other new resource possibly. Second, nothing in my opinion which i have stated above has the game "hold your hand," what i suggested was a PVE focused experience with PVP integrated. What you want for the server is a PVP base followed by slight PVE experiences, which will never happen with the incoming player base or how Minecraft as a game is formatted. There is a difference between slight suffering and abuse. I have suffered to make a wall almost 25 blocks high with a glass dome above it to keep out invaders on previous maps, i have suffered hours of long grinding, and i have suffered trying to cap castles from PVP players far above me so i can continue upgrading my TOWN which should be a PVE staple. What i see people pushing for (mainly those who PVP more than others) is abuse. They want more PVP action, they want TNT to be in the game so they can explode towns and get into fights. They have to camp dungeons or towns just to have fights. These are the people who want the old Herocraft back, which will never happen. As I continue to say the majority of the new player base that comes in will be PVE focused, not PVP. So if we can make a stable and safe( but sufferable/grindy) area for these PVE players to thrive they will then move towards the other side of the spectrum which is PVP. I mean no disrespect to the server, but we arn't doing great on a player base and just throwing ideas like this and others out the window doesnt help. We are not a faction war server we do not aim only to fight, it is a PVE server first then other things later.

 

[radicater11]

Thanks for your opinion and while i agree in some parts i disagree with others. Firstly, in regards to Apex from castles, If castles were changed so that at any time after 20 mins after capture they could be retaken then i might be fine with PVP=Apex, but it would also have to once again be alot of medals for an apex or some other new resource possibly. Second, nothing in my opinion which i have stated above has the game "hold your hand," what i suggested was a PVE focused experience with PVP integrated. What you want for the server is a PVP base followed by slight PVE experiences, which will never happen with the incoming player base or how Minecraft as a game is formatted. There is a difference between slight suffering and abuse. I have suffered to make a wall almost 25 blocks high with a glass dome above it to keep out invaders on previous maps, i have suffered hours of long grinding, and i have suffered trying to cap castles from PVP players far above me so i can continue upgrading my TOWN which should be a PVE staple. What i see people pushing for (mainly those who PVP more than others) is abuse. They want more PVP action, they want TNT to be in the game so they can explode towns and get into fights. They have to camp dungeons or towns just to have fights. These are the people who want the old Herocraft back, which will never happen. As I continue to say the majority of the new player base that comes in will be PVE focused, not PVP. So if we can make a stable and safe( but sufferable/grindy) area for these PVE players to thrive they will then move towards the other side of the spectrum which is PVP. I mean no disrespect to the server, but we arn't doing great on a player base and just throwing ideas like this and others out the window doesnt help. We are not a faction war server we do not aim only to fight, it is a PVE server first then other things later.

I understand your sentiment, but this server was NOT a PvE server at all when it was truly flourishing. There was actually no effort put into the PvE, it was all vanilla systems. It wasn't until PvE was forced into the equation that people started to leave. I don't argue that the beginning of the experience should be safe, but it should not continue far past into having a town and resources. I'll just conclude with the fact that everytime I've been on alone, there has been 2 or more people in each town that could have easily contested my castle capping, but they make no attempt. Capturing the castle only requires standing around for about 3 minutes, you should try it some time.

 

[Boomer779]

I understand your sentiment, but this server was NOT a PvE server at all when it was truly flourishing. There was actually no effort put into the PvE, it was all vanilla systems. It wasn't until PvE was forced into the equation that people started to leave. I don't argue that the beginning of the experience should be safe, but it should not continue far past into having a town and resources. I'll just conclude with the fact that everytime I've been on alone, there has been 2 or more people in each town that could have easily contested my castle capping, but they make no attempt. Capturing the castle only requires standing around for about 3 minutes, you should try it some time.

Firstly, I have captured castles before, but there is a difference between now and when the map first came out. Now there might be 5 people online max and then you are correct in suggesting it is easy to cap. But in the previous map or at the beginning of this one you could not cap a castle without some PVP town come guns blazing. They have every right to do so as they play the game as well, but do not claim it is an easy experience for new players. Also, it is your opinion that it was flourishing when it was not PVE based, however the last time i could even remember the server "flourishing" was years ago. The generation that plays minecraft now isn't looking for a PVP based server. I am not proposing we end all PVP and I am not saying we should have all PVE, what i'm suggesting is that we have more PVE focused gameplay then that which forces players to play in a hostile PVP environment which we currently have. We do not gain players by keeping what we have, as we can see by the lack of server population. You claim that people left when PVE started and that is because those people wanted a hardcore raiding esc server. We realized that then tried to make it more PVP focused to draw them back in, but by doing so we got rid of the HUGE PVE player base that had nothing to do with PVP or raiding. So now we are stuck in a horrible in between time where its some PVE some PVP, but those who PVP dominate and some (not all) create a toxic community. We gain no new players and the ones that try to check us out are immediately pushed away due to the PVP inclined nature the server has.
If we want to build the server back with NEW players we need to make new rules, new PVE based experience, remove toxic players, and create an addictive and interactive experience for players to enjoy.

 

[xexorian]

Firstly, I have captured castles before, but there is a difference between now and when the map first came out. Now there might be 5 people online max and then you are correct in suggesting it is easy to cap. But in the previous map or at the beginning of this one you could not cap a castle without some PVP town come guns blazing. They have every right to do so as they play the game as well, but do not claim it is an easy experience for new players. Also, it is your opinion that it was flourishing when it was not PVE based, however the last time i could even remember the server "flourishing" was years ago. The generation that plays minecraft now isn't looking for a PVP based server. I am not proposing we end all PVP and I am not saying we should have all PVE, what i'm suggesting is that we have more PVE focused gameplay then that which forces players to play in a hostile PVP environment which we currently have. We do not gain players by keeping what we have, as we can see by the lack of server population. You claim that people left when PVE started and that is because those people wanted a hardcore raiding esc server. We realized that then tried to make it more PVP focused to draw them back in, but by doing so we got rid of the HUGE PVE player base that had nothing to do with PVP or raiding. So now we are stuck in a horrible in between time where its some PVE some PVP, but those who PVP dominate and some (not all) create a toxic community. We gain no new players and the ones that try to check us out are immediately pushed away due to the PVP inclined nature the server has.
If we want to build the server back with NEW players we need to make new rules, new PVE based experience, remove toxic players, and create an addictive and interactive experience for players to enjoy.

To be honest with you, this is somewhat my line of thinking.

We need to keep PVP on outside of towns and around the maps. I'd prefer going back to a sanctum style system where towns are literally safe havens, with portals they can buy to the nexus, and having awesome treasure and explorations, with skills like /skill warp, /skill gateway, /skill port, /skill groupteleport, becoming things that are earned through challenging dungeon experiences, and unlocking valid port locations and gateways, as well as the ability to tp your friends to you, ( these should all have pretty high cd / not usable in combat ).

I think we should making griefing illegal, expand the map size to about 15,000 x 15,000 and let players have faster ways to travel. Bring back a need for runesmiths to create runestones. Create a skill specific for using them, and make it something you have to go explore some hardcore dungeon experience to earn.

We need to redesign things from the ground up to be like a real RPG experience. Make things about it hardcore, but don't make it so hardcore everyone quits before giving it a chance.

I want to see dragon travel or flight paths, and neutral cities with NPC quests, overworld dungeons, custom bosses, actual raids, all in an survival map environment. It can be done, and I think it could be done quite easily with a small dedicated team in just a few weeks.

Lots of the design is here and there, we can take a lot of content from stuff we've recycled or already done and can recycle again. Most of this would be config changes across the board. We need to bring back Arenas and Mob Arenas, challenge mode stuff. We need to use a gear progression system - NOT class balancing acts on a high-wire based around levels.

And more... Residences should be kept as a donor perk only, TNT needs to be allowed but not on towns and residences, it should be used for raiding neutral cities, and we should redefine "RAID" in terms of PvE. Can you imagine blowing into some castle with TNT and getting swarmed with mobs and elite bosses at the throneroom. Having some epic encounter you blow yourself into it only to have the walls regenerate behind you and the only way out being to kill or be killed? Having a castle with 20 dungeon floors you have to get through, or you can skip some by using TNT?

There's a lot more to explore here no one has before.

 

[Boomer779]

To be honest with you, this is somewhat my line of thinking.

We need to keep PVP on outside of towns and around the maps. I'd prefer going back to a sanctum style system where towns are literally safe havens, with portals they can buy to the nexus, and having awesome treasure and explorations, with skills like /skill warp, /skill gateway, /skill port, /skill groupteleport, becoming things that are earned through challenging dungeon experiences, and unlocking valid port locations and gateways, as well as the ability to tp your friends to you, ( these should all have pretty high cd / not usable in combat ).

I think we should making griefing illegal, expand the map size to about 15,000 x 15,000 and let players have faster ways to travel. Bring back a need for runesmiths to create runestones. Create a skill specific for using them, and make it something you have to go explore some hardcore dungeon experience to earn.

We need to redesign things from the ground up to be like a real RPG experience. Make things about it hardcore, but don't make it so hardcore everyone quits before giving it a chance.

I want to see dragon travel or flight paths, and neutral cities with NPC quests, overworld dungeons, custom bosses, actual raids, all in an survival map environment. It can be done, and I think it could be done quite easily with a small dedicated team in just a few weeks.

Lots of the design is here and there, we can take a lot of content from stuff we've recycled or already done and can recycle again. Most of this would be config changes across the board. We need to bring back Arenas and Mob Arenas, challenge mode stuff. We need to use a gear progression system - NOT class balancing acts on a high-wire based around levels.

And more... Residences should be kept as a donor perk only, TNT needs to be allowed but not on towns and residences, it should be used for raiding neutral cities, and we should redefine "RAID" in terms of PvE. Can you imagine blowing into some castle with TNT and getting swarmed with mobs and elite bosses at the throneroom. Having some epic encounter you blow yourself into it only to have the walls regenerate behind you and the only way out being to kill or be killed? Having a castle with 20 dungeon floors you have to get through, or you can skip some by using TNT?

There's a lot more to explore here no one has before.

This This THIS. I can't agree more with what you have said here. Herocraft has great potential and everything you have said here alone could turn it into one of the top Minecraft servers. If we could actually pull together a team of coders, this could all be a reality in just a week or two. I hope you and others will push for this reality. Tagging Kainzo so he can see this. @Kainzo
I would be more than happy to help make this a reality even if it meant me donating or helping do coding myself.

 

[JupiterRome]

To be honest with you, this is somewhat my line of thinking.

We need to keep PVP on outside of towns and around the maps. I'd prefer going back to a sanctum style system where towns are literally safe havens, with portals they can buy to the nexus, and having awesome treasure and explorations, with skills like /skill warp, /skill gateway, /skill port, /skill groupteleport, becoming things that are earned through challenging dungeon experiences, and unlocking valid port locations and gateways, as well as the ability to tp your friends to you, ( these should all have pretty high cd / not usable in combat ).

I think we should making griefing illegal, expand the map size to about 15,000 x 15,000 and let players have faster ways to travel. Bring back a need for runesmiths to create runestones. Create a skill specific for using them, and make it something you have to go explore some hardcore dungeon experience to earn.

We need to redesign things from the ground up to be like a real RPG experience. Make things about it hardcore, but don't make it so hardcore everyone quits before giving it a chance.

I want to see dragon travel or flight paths, and neutral cities with NPC quests, overworld dungeons, custom bosses, actual raids, all in an survival map environment. It can be done, and I think it could be done quite easily with a small dedicated team in just a few weeks.

Lots of the design is here and there, we can take a lot of content from stuff we've recycled or already done and can recycle again. Most of this would be config changes across the board. We need to bring back Arenas and Mob Arenas, challenge mode stuff. We need to use a gear progression system - NOT class balancing acts on a high-wire based around levels.

And more... Residences should be kept as a donor perk only, TNT needs to be allowed but not on towns and residences, it should be used for raiding neutral cities, and we should redefine "RAID" in terms of PvE. Can you imagine blowing into some castle with TNT and getting swarmed with mobs and elite bosses at the throneroom. Having some epic encounter you blow yourself into it only to have the walls regenerate behind you and the only way out being to kill or be killed? Having a castle with 20 dungeon floors you have to get through, or you can skip some by using TNT?

There's a lot more to explore here no one has before.

I really disagree with this, if you wan't a server that is focused on PvE and not PvP then you simply get outclassed by other minecraft RPG servers IMO, Herocraft has always been a PvP server and should always be a PvP server. I think you could have healthy PvE events such as the one mentioned but being able to tp all over the place is just bullshit and shouldn't be a thing, it changes a little risk experience into a 0 risk one. I don't think herocraft has the amount of players to keep a map that large without destroying every form of random player interaction that there is. This would literally be turning Herocraft into carebear craft and just put the server in a spot where its not a PvP server and other RPG/PvE servers do it better. When you look back in the History of Herocraft it has always done good (server population wise) when there are groups of players PvPing constantly and it has always died when there isn't, I would say Bastion was the last map to actually accomplish that and the servers numbers have dropped every time there has been something implemented to "hold your hand" such as the PvE server and PvP server being split and the whole North/South continent thing.

 

[radicater11]

I really disagree with this, if you wan't a server that is focused on PvE and not PvP then you simply get outclassed by other minecraft RPG servers IMO, Herocraft has always been a PvP server and should always be a PvP server. I think you could have healthy PvE events such as the one mentioned but being able to tp all over the place is just bullshit and shouldn't be a thing, it changes a little risk experience into a 0 risk one. I don't think herocraft has the amount of players to keep a map that large without destroying every form of random player interaction that there is. This would literally be turning Herocraft into carebear craft and just put the server in a spot where its not a PvP server and other RPG/PvE servers do it better. When you look back in the History of Herocraft it has always done good (server population wise) when there are groups of players PvPing constantly and it has always died when there isn't, I would say Bastion was the last map to actually accomplish that and the servers numbers have dropped every time there has been something implemented to "hold your hand" such as the PvE server and PvP server being split and the whole North/South continent thing.

This is exactly what I was thinking, historically people have always played for the PvP. Boomer claims the new crowd of players doesn't want to PvP, but I checked the average population of PvE/build servers to PvP ones, and PvP is still flourishing. Herocraft should have stayed in its niche, and I would like to see it return to that niche with some optional PvE for more variety.

 

[Boomer779]

This is exactly what I was thinking, historically people have always played for the PvP. Boomer claims the new crowd of players doesn't want to PvP, but I checked the average population of PvE/build servers to PvP ones, and PvP is still flourishing. Herocraft should have stayed in its niche, and I would like to see it return to that niche with some optional PvE for more variety.

Link and or numbers of PVE servers to PVP? Also if we are taking into account such servers as mini games, that doesn't really count as all the "hunger games" esc servers cater to people's immediate want for fighting not an investment on a server for a long time and having PVP all the time.

 

[Kainzo]

This is exactly what I was thinking, historically people have always played for the PvP. Boomer claims the new crowd of players doesn't want to PvP, but I checked the average population of PvE/build servers to PvP ones, and PvP is still flourishing. Herocraft should have stayed in its niche, and I would like to see it return to that niche with some optional PvE for more variety.

"Herocraft has always been X" is a really untrue statement. Herocraft is and has been many things, usually not tying it self to anything. We didn't have pvp turned on until map 2 or 3...
While PVP does definitely make things more interesting imo.

 

[JupiterRome]

"Herocraft has always been X" is a really untrue statement. Herocraft is and has been many things, usually not tying it self to anything. We didn't have pvp turned on until map 2 or 3...
While PVP does definitely make things more interesting imo.

The server has changed a lot overtime and I agree with you in saying that "Herocraft has always been X" is a statement that is pretty silly because of the fact that the server has tried to cater to different play styles over the years it has been alive, but I feel like if you try to cater to every different playstyle you end up with a server that is split and so much is invested into so many different areas that none of them actually excel. I personally think that most people have always viewed Herocraft as a more PvP centric heroes servers and less of a PvE/RPG/Building Server because of the excellent use of the heroes plugin combined with the staff's encouragement of PvP through events and what not. I personally believe that herocraft is a server that is PvP centric and even if it isn't what was intended in doing some of the changes that have been done, its something that needs to be accepted and worked with, because at the end of the day if Herocraft stops marketing as a PvP server and starts marketing as more of an RP/PvE server it just gets outclassed by other servers that (no offense) have more content or do that specific thing better.

 

[xexorian]

Maybe you didn't read through the lines of what I said, but everything I just mentioned about improving the server and moving forward, except for the specific pvp off changes, means all of it would be considerably "IN" PVP. That is where we have excelled every single time, moving forward with ideas, changing things up. Look at the last time we had mob arenas--town PvP was dead, every town including altum had glass roofs that map. My town was the only town with open walls--we welcomed raiders to catch us building up there. What's more even we still had an underground lair filled with 100's of LWC's from our officers. Over 40 of those were mine from both mayor and donor perks. You guys keep preaching the same thing about "I personally think that most people have always viewed Herocraft as a more PvP centric heroes servers and less of a PvE" But that is simply not true! You guys had some of the most complex residences and personal regions, some of the most well defended and guarded towns, and tons of LWC's and loot. You guys were probably more scared of losing your stuff than noobs I recruited daily. The whole issue of LWC's was addressed too much. First, we reduced the number of them, quit giving them away to mayors, and then we introduced TNT and expiring LWC's compounded this for you guys. Now you just raid each other, and want to keep it that way, drowning out any form of longer term PvE.

Spoiler

Listen, sidetracking here, but MANY of my "PVE players" when I ran my kingdom ( across 3 maps, with hundreds of actives at a time, much higher than any of our current pop ) -- all of these types played only on weekends, or off spring break, or very casually, and everytime they came back? To town mayors who've claimed their stuff? Their LWC's expired? Having to commit suicide and start punching trees? Waiting for an admin to move their LWC's out of their residence? And these people slowly lost will to continue. The reason we kept so many actives we had was a great shuffling of members from our mayors and officers, to keep the less often players coming back. My kingdom rules were setup so that we didn't "steal" all our members stuff when they quit playing for a while. They lost no progress, and could come back and have fun without having to start completely over again, and again, and again. These people I used to have, thought very highly of that. I'm not saying I didn't take goods from people, I would recycle through my oldest "handout" LWC's as people stopped returning or would break from their routines for extended periods much longer than a month usually. So, I did it too, and I'm not saying that's the direction we need again. I'm saying that we need safe towns, so that other mayors and groups can decide their own rules, and leave it up to our design of things, to handle the automation of this process.

Admit it, the best times you've had were group PvP, tracking bounties, hunting down people trying to level, PvPing at mob arenas, Conquests, killing people trying to get stronger, trying to get richer, camping noobs, etc. Always trying out new ways to PvP. You want my thoughts? I think a lot of these so-called "Hardcore" PvPers want easy fights, and I don't even mention taking that away. I'm talking about how to bring all of this back together nit picking our best features and working with it, not against it for any specific cause or nostalgia.

( I think ) You don't like the map size expansion idea because of my suggestions of increasing player mobility by bringing back reasons to earn it and use it ( even with strict limitations on usage, because it might deny you a kill here, or there? Or, when you get outplayed or maneuvered? ) Learn to accept a loss, even if your loss is not getting a gank. You'll have plenty of golden opportunities for PvP at the things I mentioned we should shake up and introduce or re-introduce back into standard gameplay.

If you listen to what I said I believe you'll understand that the bigger picture I want to paint is about intermingling both play styles to their maximum! Raiding towns just forces most people to quit. How can anything I suggested about having Open-World PvP and PvE Objectives ruin our current player population? When's the last time on this map you had fun TNTing into a bunch of free loot of players who already quit? There's simply no satisfaction in that long-term. Maybe, sure, early on.. but once you have more stuff than you know what to do with. What are you wanting to achieve by having all the diamonds on the server when there's no one left to share them with?

EDIT: I can see town TNT'ing working, as long as towns have heavy war costs, and TNT is an expensive money sink for the economy and not some vanilla sand and gun powder drops. This would do several things, keep large towns in check ideally, but in lower pops it wouldn't matter so much. The smaller towns wouldn't get raided because they'd be not worth it. Who wants to raid a poor town, or new one, when it costs ideally thousands of coins to even do so? Player limitations on township size would factor into this, so that only large towns even with inactives, would have to consider kicking members to decrease the risk to them at some point. We should encourage people to stay, and keep playing by making better incentives here. Sometimes this is by punishing them, sometimes this is by rewarding them. You need a balance. We can adjust war/tnt costs to match active town sizes and player population to keep it viable.

 

[JupiterRome]

Maybe you didn't read through the lines of what I said, but everything I just mentioned about improving the server and moving forward, except for the specific pvp off changes, means all of it would be considerably "IN" PVP. That is where we have excelled every single time, moving forward with ideas, changing things up. Look at the last time we had mob arenas--town PvP was dead, every town including altum had glass roofs that map. My town was the only town with open walls--we welcomed raiders to catch us building up there. What's more even we still had an underground lair filled with 100's of LWC's from our officers. Over 40 of those were mine from both mayor and donor perks. You guys keep preaching the same thing about "I personally think that most people have always viewed Herocraft as a more PvP centric heroes servers and less of a PvE" But that is simply not true! You guys had some of the most complex residences and personal regions, some of the most well defended and guarded towns, and tons of LWC's and loot. You guys were probably more scared of losing your stuff than noobs I recruited daily. The whole issue of LWC's was addressed too much. First, we reduced the number of them, quit giving them away to mayors, and then we introduced TNT and expiring LWC's compounded this for you guys. Now you just raid each other, and want to keep it that way, drowning out any form of longer term PvE.

Spoiler

Listen, sidetracking here, but MANY of my "PVE players" when I ran my kingdom ( across 3 maps, with hundreds of actives at a time, much higher than any of our current pop ) -- all of these types played only on weekends, or off spring break, or very casually, and everytime they came back? To town mayors who've claimed their stuff? Their LWC's expired? Having to commit suicide and start punching trees? Waiting for an admin to move their LWC's out of their residence? And these people slowly lost will to continue. The reason we kept so many actives we had was a great shuffling of members from our mayors and officers, to keep the less often players coming back. My kingdom rules were setup so that we didn't "steal" all our members stuff when they quit playing for a while. They lost no progress, and could come back and have fun without having to start completely over again, and again, and again. These people I used to have, thought very highly of that. I'm not saying I didn't take goods from people, I would recycle through my oldest "handout" LWC's as people stopped returning or would break from their routines for extended periods much longer than a month usually. So, I did it too, and I'm not saying that's the direction we need again. I'm saying that we need safe towns, so that other mayors and groups can decide their own rules, and leave it up to our design of things, to handle the automation of this process.

Admit it, the best times you've had were group PvP, tracking bounties, hunting down people trying to level, PvPing at mob arenas, Conquests, killing people trying to get stronger, trying to get richer, camping noobs, etc. Always trying out new ways to PvP. You want my thoughts? I think a lot of these so-called "Hardcore" PvPers want easy fights, and I don't even mention taking that away. I'm talking about how to bring all of this back together nit picking our best features and working with it, not against it for any specific cause or nostalgia.

( I think ) You don't like the map size expansion idea because of my suggestions of increasing player mobility by bringing back reasons to earn it and use it ( even with strict limitations on usage, because it might deny you a kill here, or there? Or, when you get outplayed or maneuvered? ) Learn to accept a loss, even if your loss is not getting a gank. You'll have plenty of golden opportunities for PvP at the things I mentioned we should shake up and introduce or re-introduce back into standard gameplay.

If you listen to what I said I believe you'll understand that the bigger picture I want to paint is about intermingling both play styles to their maximum! Raiding towns just forces most people to quit. How can anything I suggested about having Open-World PvP and PvE Objectives ruin our current player population? When's the last time on this map you had fun TNTing into a bunch of free loot of players who already quit? There's simply no satisfaction in that long-term. Maybe, sure, early on.. but once you have more stuff than you know what to do with. What are you wanting to achieve by having all the diamonds on the server when there's no one left to share them with?

EDIT: I can see town TNT'ing working, as long as towns have heavy war costs, and TNT is an expensive money sink for the economy and not some vanilla sand and gun powder drops. This would do several things, keep large towns in check ideally, but in lower pops it wouldn't matter so much. The smaller towns wouldn't get raided because they'd be not worth it. Who wants to raid a poor town, or new one, when it costs ideally thousands of coins to even do so? Player limitations on township size would factor into this, so that only large towns even with inactives, would have to consider kicking members to decrease the risk to them at some point. We should encourage people to stay, and keep playing by making better incentives here. Sometimes this is by punishing them, sometimes this is by rewarding them. You need a balance. We can adjust war/tnt costs to match active town sizes and player population to keep it viable.

I don't think anyone on herocraft has actually ever been that scared of loosing there stuff, like Its important ig because of the fact that I need it To PvP but like I could honestly just go buy another set or something so its not really a big deal, and on the topic of taking new players stuff if they don't play for an extended period of time, I would argue that if they are new they wouldn't have anything that I genuinely would care to take. Even on the off chance that they did have something I happened to take they would have to not log in for a month,(I think thats what it is if I remember right) which if you actually care about your stuff is really easy to do, hell you can get minechat on your phone and login and if you actually care about your stuff and if nothing is possible I'm sure 90% of town mayors on Herocraft would have made an exception for you and not taken anything.

The best times I've had on Herocraft were group PvP, but the bounty system is really shitty given that you could use an exploit in it to get free coins, and In my experience on herocraft most people level in groups so if you're tracking someone down whose leveling I'd argue thats just another form of Group PvP. Conquest is something I think is great, I think it could be done better but at the end of the day I think its a great incentive to PvP. Things like camping noobs though, people have never enjoyed that for the PvP, Nobody ever does it for PvP. Camping Noobs is something I think is done 90% of the time for a better /pvp stats (idk what it is now) or a reaction from the new players because sometimes they say some funny shit when they die or a very small amount of people do it for gear. I personally think camping noobs is pretty unhealthy but at the end of the day thats what happens when you choose to play a PvP server, you die sometimes. In all reality I don't think a lot of people just want easy fights and instead they just want any fight they can get, like you can argue that they "just want easy fights" but a fight thats considered an "easy fight" for one group is something that is a challenge for another group and I would argue that most PvPers like "easy fights" less and only fight them because they like PvP in general. I personally think this is why a lot of the server ends up quitting, because one group figures out the comp to use or is just better then they other current groups playing and If you're stomping everyone it just gets boring and you're bound to quit. In your paragraph you said "the best times you've had were group PvP" which I 100% agree with and I think most people will, this furthurs my argument that herocraft will and always have a PvP focused community if it is to succeed.

I think a Bigger map is just a bit cancer given the fact that it reduces player interaction, and I think with how often Herocraft's population fluctuates it isn't really something that you can see herocraft can support because a map thats too small with 100 players will be too big with 5 players. I think smaller maps are important to the longevity of a map so that people don't quit once the population goes down. I honestly don't think anyone who PvPs will ever care about not getting one kill.

Okay this might be a bit harsh, but if you're playing on a PvP server and don't want to PvP thats all fine and dandy but If you're going to quit when someone raids you I think you're just a bitch and shouldn't play on a PvP server and expect not to die and complain when it happens, this server has a plugin specifically made for endgame PvP and I think people if people cry about dying then this isn't the server for them. Raiding towns is something that may make these players quit (I wouldn't say force because we both know nobody is forcing them to do anything) and I would say that they should because I don't think they'll have fun here. I don't think you can realistically have PvP or Pve objectives given the server population but if this can be accomplished I think there could be great ways to force people who PvP and people who don't to work together to get to work together, and at the end of the day it adds a reason to play and something to do, which I think is good and something the server needs. I personally can say I've not played this map because of completely unrelated reasons but I do see your point, TnTing into players that have quit isn't fun when nobody else plays but I think thats something the staff needs to look into. If players are TnTing into peoples bases after they quit thats completely 100% fine in my eyes but the problem staff members should be focusing on is why did everyone quit? Saying that People TnTing into peoples bases after they quit has a negative impact on the server is something I don't think you can realistically say because of the fact that those players had to all already quit in the first place.

*I just woke up so if you don't understand something I probably was just being retarded, so just ask me what it means.

 

[Boomer779]

I don't think anyone on herocraft has actually ever been that scared of loosing there stuff, like Its important ig because of the fact that I need it To PvP but like I could honestly just go buy another set or something so its not really a big deal, and on the topic of taking new players stuff if they don't play for an extended period of time, I would argue that if they are new they wouldn't have anything that I genuinely would care to take. Even on the off chance that they did have something I happened to take they would have to not log in for a month,(I think thats what it is if I remember right) which if you actually care about your stuff is really easy to do, hell you can get minechat on your phone and login and if you actually care about your stuff and if nothing is possible I'm sure 90% of town mayors on Herocraft would have made an exception for you and not taken anything.

The best times I've had on Herocraft were group PvP, but the bounty system is really shitty given that you could use an exploit in it to get free coins, and In my experience on herocraft most people level in groups so if you're tracking someone down whose leveling I'd argue thats just another form of Group PvP. Conquest is something I think is great, I think it could be done better but at the end of the day I think its a great incentive to PvP. Things like camping noobs though, people have never enjoyed that for the PvP, Nobody ever does it for PvP. Camping Noobs is something I think is done 90% of the time for a better /pvp stats (idk what it is now) or a reaction from the new players because sometimes they say some funny shit when they die or a very small amount of people do it for gear. I personally think camping noobs is pretty unhealthy but at the end of the day thats what happens when you choose to play a PvP server, you die sometimes. In all reality I don't think a lot of people just want easy fights and instead they just want any fight they can get, like you can argue that they "just want easy fights" but a fight thats considered an "easy fight" for one group is something that is a challenge for another group and I would argue that most PvPers like "easy fights" less and only fight them because they like PvP in general. I personally think this is why a lot of the server ends up quitting, because one group figures out the comp to use or is just better then they other current groups playing and If you're stomping everyone it just gets boring and you're bound to quit. In your paragraph you said "the best times you've had were group PvP" which I 100% agree with and I think most people will, this furthurs my argument that herocraft will and always have a PvP focused community if it is to succeed.

I think a Bigger map is just a bit cancer given the fact that it reduces player interaction, and I think with how often Herocraft's population fluctuates it isn't really something that you can see herocraft can support because a map thats too small with 100 players will be too big with 5 players. I think smaller maps are important to the longevity of a map so that people don't quit once the population goes down. I honestly don't think anyone who PvPs will ever care about not getting one kill.

Okay this might be a bit harsh, but if you're playing on a PvP server and don't want to PvP thats all fine and dandy but If you're going to quit when someone raids you I think you're just a bitch and shouldn't play on a PvP server and expect not to die and complain when it happens, this server has a plugin specifically made for endgame PvP and I think people if people cry about dying then this isn't the server for them. Raiding towns is something that may make these players quit (I wouldn't say force because we both know nobody is forcing them to do anything) and I would say that they should because I don't think they'll have fun here. I don't think you can realistically have PvP or Pve objectives given the server population but if this can be accomplished I think there could be great ways to force people who PvP and people who don't to work together to get to work together, and at the end of the day it adds a reason to play and something to do, which I think is good and something the server needs. I personally can say I've not played this map because of completely unrelated reasons but I do see your point, TnTing into players that have quit isn't fun when nobody else plays but I think thats something the staff needs to look into. If players are TnTing into peoples bases after they quit thats completely 100% fine in my eyes but the problem staff members should be focusing on is why did everyone quit? Saying that People TnTing into peoples bases after they quit has a negative impact on the server is something I don't think you can realistically say because of the fact that those players had to all already quit in the first place.

*I just woke up so if you don't understand something I probably was just being retarded, so just ask me what it means.

My responses go in order in the paragraph, I also just woke up so feel free to question my grammar.

Firstly, I can name at least 10 people off the top of my head who are scared of losing their stuff to PvP. Last map my town (BlackMesa) built a wall around our measly town. This wall was 25ish blocks high 4 think and we by a perimeter of a 5 by 5 chunk basis. It had a glass dome atop of it which costed over 2000 glass to make. We did ALL of this because we didn't want to lose out stuff to PvP. This current map, I've seen PvP towns with obsideon walls surrounding all sides of a base AND water + Lwcs. I say all of this to show that even people who do not actively engage in PvP which would be myself still fear in losing gear, and those who do PVP have an even greater fear of losing not only their gear, but the stuff within their base.

Even as a PVE player some of my greatest times in Herocraft have been in PvP. The best time comes to mind as my group successfully held on to a castle cap while defending against Irish and his crew. But, I have also had some of my greatest achievements in PVE too. The giant wall for example or mastering 8 classes. Switching over to PvPers wanting an easy fight, I think this is 100% true. I also think that they love to PvP as well and no one is faulting them there. But when you have people like last map, running around with paladin ender mage etc killing everyone whose just mining underground for no reason except the "thrill of the sport" I have no reason to believe that they want a fair fight, but instead just want to feel stronger than someone else. The biggest point which I agree with you on is in this same paragraph. We need to update our class system. After so many years of having this class system the veterans start to become pros. They have keybinds for classes they haven't even mastered yet. They know all the classes inside and out and could best anyone with any class. This leads to easy fights as well as an unfair PVP experience for new players. I can't compete, for example, against Irish in a 1v1 paladin battle. We may both be mastered but he has the knowledge of YEARS of class functions and ranges. I know it would be a lot of work but if we redid or just trade new classes for the old ones PvP would become much less of a problem.

Map should be increased in size. If players want interaction they can go looking for it. We have a dynamic map that's shows block updates and towns. A smaller map just promotes PvP and camping inside of a town. A bigger map allows for more creativity and usage of land without worrying that someone from a hero gate could be st your door in minutes.

It's not a PVP server. We have not been a PVP server for a long time. Kainzo himself even said we have not been one. Granted, everyone left might spend their time PVPing but that doesn't make a server. Now, I don't care if people raid towns. I will say it again I DONT CARE IF PEOPLE RAID TOWNS. What I do care about is simple. IF WE COULD MAKE THE FLIPPING COST OF RAIDING TOWNS HIGH AND EXPENSIVE. If people go afk and their stuff gets raided fine whatever, but what makes me mad is the fact the same town can raid me over 20 times in a week if they wanted to with the way TNT and raids on towns are structured. And the only people who disagree with change are those Raiding, because they couldn't be asked to find another way to raid people or simply do the established way of purchasing TNT for a high price and then getting to raid at max twice. We keep saying we cater to much to the PVE crowd, I think this whole time we cater to much to the PVP crowd, and that they complain more about things in the game than those who just stand back and PVE.

 

[JupiterRome]

My responses go in order in the paragraph, I also just woke up so feel free to question my grammar.

Firstly, I can name at least 10 people off the top of my head who are scared of losing their stuff to PvP. Last map my town (BlackMesa) built a wall around our measly town. This wall was 25ish blocks high 4 think and we by a perimeter of a 5 by 5 chunk basis. It had a glass dome atop of it which costed over 2000 glass to make. We did ALL of this because we didn't want to lose out stuff to PvP. This current map, I've seen PvP towns with obsideon walls surrounding all sides of a base AND water + Lwcs. I say all of this to show that even people who do not actively engage in PvP which would be myself still fear in losing gear, and those who do PVP have an even greater fear of losing not only their gear, but the stuff within their base.

Even as a PVE player some of my greatest times in Herocraft have been in PvP. The best time comes to mind as my group successfully held on to a castle cap while defending against Irish and his crew. But, I have also had some of my greatest achievements in PVE too. The giant wall for example or mastering 8 classes. Switching over to PvPers wanting an easy fight, I think this is 100% true. I also think that they love to PvP as well and no one is faulting them there. But when you have people like last map, running around with paladin ender mage etc killing everyone whose just mining underground for no reason except the "thrill of the sport" I have no reason to believe that they want a fair fight, but instead just want to feel stronger than someone else. The biggest point which I agree with you on is in this same paragraph. We need to update our class system. After so many years of having this class system the veterans start to become pros. They have keybinds for classes they haven't even mastered yet. They know all the classes inside and out and could best anyone with any class. This leads to easy fights as well as an unfair PVP experience for new players. I can't compete, for example, against Irish in a 1v1 paladin battle. We may both be mastered but he has the knowledge of YEARS of class functions and ranges. I know it would be a lot of work but if we redid or just trade new classes for the old ones PvP would become much less of a problem.

Map should be increased in size. If players want interaction they can go looking for it. We have a dynamic map that's shows block updates and towns. A smaller map just promotes PvP and camping inside of a town. A bigger map allows for more creativity and usage of land without worrying that someone from a hero gate could be st your door in minutes.

It's not a PVP server. We have not been a PVP server for a long time. Kainzo himself even said we have not been one. Granted, everyone left might spend their time PVPing but that doesn't make a server. Now, I don't care if people raid towns. I will say it again I DONT CARE IF PEOPLE RAID TOWNS. What I do care about is simple. IF WE COULD MAKE THE FLIPPING COST OF RAIDING TOWNS HIGH AND EXPENSIVE. If people go afk and their stuff gets raided fine whatever, but what makes me mad is the fact the same town can raid me over 20 times in a week if they wanted to with the way TNT and raids on towns are structured. And the only people who disagree with change are those Raiding, because they couldn't be asked to find another way to raid people or simply do the established way of purchasing TNT for a high price and then getting to raid at max twice. We keep saying we cater to much to the PVE crowd, I think this whole time we cater to much to the PVP crowd, and that they complain more about things in the game than those who just stand back and PVE.

Okay but 10 people out of how many people that play on the server, that may just be the mindset of your group which is completely okay, but if you get upset about loosing the stuff you worked hard to get then perhaps a server that is based on PvP (main selling point is heroes which promotes PvP IMO) and dying happens a lot you should just switch to something that fits your playstyle more. Also, I think people are always going to build walls and try to keep their stuff safe because at the end of the day you're just dumb not too, I personally don't really care about dying and loosing some stuff because it doesn't really matter to me, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go full tard mode and not build anything to protect my stuff because even if I care very little about loosing it, I'd just be dumb to not do some simple things to protect it.


If some of your greatest times in Herocraft are PvP you should understand these things such as loosing stuff and what not, and why it doesn't matter to people, later in your post you said that you refuse to believe people PvP just because they enjoy it but I feel like if your best times on herocraft have actually been in PvP you should understand that to some people its very fun and enjoyable. I feel like if people are killing people mining underground it has a very high chance to be for loot too, why should I spend my time to mine when I can track someone who has been mining and just go take their ores? I disagree with saying the classes need to be updated because people should be rewarded for knowing what they're doing, you're complaining about older players being able to stomp newer players because newer players don't know what they are doing, I think this is something that is healthy because it rewards someone for thinking about what they do and knowing how to beat certain classes with their class, this is something I think is prevalent in 90% of games with PvP, some examples such as Archage, Guild Wars 2, Smite, League of Legends, Dota, Albion, etc. I think that if Irish is better then you then yeah, you shouldn't be able to compete with someone who is that much better then you and I don't see a problem with him ending your career. I don't think the map should be increased in size because player interaction is something that every game has and is something players Should Not have to search for themselves, People quit when the server is "dead" due to lack of player interaction and I think you just got raided a few times and are making really emotional claims without putting thought into how it effects the server as a whole and just thinking about what you want. You can say Herocraft needs a bigger map to allow for more usage of land but at the end of the day there is plenty of unused land on Herocraft and even if the map was expanded, people would just bitch about it taking forever to get places and we would have new herogates and you would run into the same problems. (has happened in the past)

Say what you want to say but Herocraft has always flourished when its PvPers were active and to its core has promoted PvP through certain events and changes, I think everytime changes are made that "promote PvE" its a waste of effort (from a business standpoint) because unless they go fullout PvE they will never reach the point of other servers and will outclassed. I understand why you want the cost of TnT to be increased but I truely think that you'll get TnTed into again and just make another post soon, What stops someone from being like Jonsoon and Yavool in previous maps (rich as fuq boi) and just buying more TnT to raid your town with, like saying "they should only be able to afford raiding my town twice a week!!!!1111!!" is a really dumb statement IMO because some people will make a lot of money and end up making easily 10x as much as another person makes in a week, what one person might be able to afford twice a week is never for other people. At the end of the day TnT shouldn't be that can be bought with currency IMO if you want to reduce the frequency of raids due to the massive differences in how much money people make/have. You say things like "the only people that disagree with this change are those raiding." but honestly like no shit. It doesn't negatively impact anyone else besides the people raiding so why would anyone else care. I think you may see the PvP community has being catered towards just because "the grass is always greener on the other side" I genuinely don't know which side is catered towards or if its perfectly even. I personally think if Herocraft wants to succeed then catering to the PvP community would be a smart move but I could be completely wrong and thats just my opinion, I have never once said that the PvE community is catered to over the PvP I just said there are changes that are focused to help PvE players and there are changes that Help PvP players more which I feel most people will agree with me on.