New Trade Channel Rules

[TheManiac23]

We had a case today in Trade channel where someone sold a "bow with infinity and punch 2" to someone.
He gave him a chest with the name "bow with infinite and punch 2"
For me thats a scam because he sold a "bow" and not "chest with a name"

If ppl abuse the chest label system we have to add a rule or disable that feature.

 

[_DELETED_10000]

I feel like I've heard this discussion before, and the conclusion was that clever wording to scam was acceptable, and the burden of proof of what item was being traded was on the players in the trade. Scamming is not against the rules, as far as I know.

IE the buyer should have asked for the item to be linked, or the item to be shown in the trade chest before payment. Considering the binding nature of a trade made in trade chat when confirmed, there should have been no argument from the seller, unless he was scamming.

If the seller had linked a real bow with those stats, and then actually traded a chest, then that would be against the rules.

 

[TheManiac23]

So that means i could sell 1000 Diamond Blocks for 5000s and then give him a chest with the name "1000 Diamond Blocks" and its no scam?

 

[_DELETED_10000]

So that means i could sell 1000 Diamond Blocks for 5000s and then give him a chest with the name "1000 Diamond Blocks" and its no scam?

No, it is a scam. But I was told scamming was allowed. I guess... @Rules Council for confirmation/clarification.

 

[LordZelkova]

No, it is a scam. But I was told scamming was allowed. I guess... [USERGROUP=47]@Rules Council[/USERGROUP] for confirmation/clarification.

Scamming in not allowed in trade chat as all trades confirmed there are protected by the DHX (think of this like the government protecting your bank account).

This was a scam and unless the person saw the item beforehand (via /showitem or something else) this is covered by the current Trade rules
The seller should either return the souls or produce the item in question (an actual bow with punch 2 and infinity)

 

[_DELETED_10000]

Scamming in not allowed in trade chat as all trades confirmed there are protected by the DHX (think of this like the government protecting your bank account).

This was a scam and unless the person saw the item beforehand (via /showitem or something else) this is covered by the current Trade rules
The seller should either return the souls or produce the item in question (an actual bow with punch 2 and infinity)

But, the item in question was a renamed chest. So renamed chests are considered illegal to sell as other items in /ch t? Even if the item was not asked to be shown (via /showitem or in the trade chest)?

 

[TheManiac23]

Scams are always illegal.
Its not a scam if you trade something but its no official trade in trade chat with confirmation.
Its a scam when its confirmed in trade chat but he doesnt give you the money/item whcih was traded

 

[_DELETED_10000]

Scams are always illegal.
Its not a scam if you trade something but its no official trade in trade chat with confirmation.
Its a scam when its confirmed in trade chat but he doesnt give you the money/item whcih was traded

I absolutely understand that.

If you offer to sell a man a bow in /ch t using /showitem and the stats and bow are agreed upon, and that person trades you a potato, he is doing something against the rules. Scamming a trade made in the binding chat of /ch t is not allowed.

If you offer to sell a man a bow in /w <name> and link it, but then produce a potato after being paid, it's a scam and is within the rules because scamming (tricking, deceiving, not following through, etc) is allowed outside of binding /ch t trades.



I'm very specifically asking about renamed chests. Are unlinked (/showitem or putting it into the chest) renamed chests sold in /ch t considered against the rules, no ifs, ands, or buts?

 

[TheManiac23]

Yes thats right. The thing happened is kinda a grey zone and the Rules Council have to decide.
I see it as scam because, like i already said, he sold a "bow" and not a "chest with a name"
Only because you have this ability doesnt mean you should abuse it.
Posting Books in the Market was disables because ppl posted books with "Codex of Ninjitsu" to scam other ppl.

 

[LordZelkova]

But, the item in question was a renamed chest. So renamed chests are considered illegal to sell as other items in /ch t? Even if the item was not asked to be shown (via /showitem or in the trade chest)?

You can sell renamed chests, but purposefully leading people t think one is something else is a scam.

 

[_DELETED_10000]

You can sell renamed chests, but purposefully leading people t think one is something else is a scam.

Thank you.

I personally believe that should be added to hc.to/rules under Chat Rules > indented bullets under 'Deals made in trade chat are binding' > "Scamming in Trade chat is not allowed! This includes the sale of renamed chests intended to deceive players into thinking it is anything other than a renamed chest."

No more grey area.

 

[TheManiac23]

Thank you.

I personally believe that should be added to hc.to/rules under Chat Rules > indented bullets under 'Deals made in trade chat are binding' > "Scamming in Trade chat is not allowed! This includes the sale of renamed chests intended to deceive players into thinking it is anything other than a renamed chest."

No more grey area.

I agree to this. Normally this should be an obvious no-go but if ppl want to abuse it we need a rule.

 

[Trazil]

This is totally allowed, lol it is not illegal because it is indeed what they were selling. If you want to be sure, always make them showitem

 

[TheManiac23]

This is totally allowed, lol it is not illegal because it is indeed what they were selling. If you want to be sure, always make them showitem

No thats was not what he was selling. He was selling a "bow" and not a "chest".
Like i said. its a grey zone. And only the Rules Council can decide what to do in this case

 

[_DELETED_10000]

This is totally allowed, lol it is not illegal because it is indeed what they were selling. If you want to be sure, always make them showitem

That was my argument, but LordZelk said that was deceitful and considered a scam per trade rules.

 

[LordZelkova]

This is totally allowed, lol it is not illegal because it is indeed what they were selling. If you want to be sure, always make them showitem

It is though, it is purposeful deceit and an attempt to make someone purchase an unintended item.

However, the @Rules Council (If they are alive) can either re-define "Scam" for HC or any of the @Moderators / @Admins can also voice.

 

[Air_Restraint]

We had a case today in Trade channel where someone sold a "bow with infinity and punch 2" to someone.
He gave him a chest with the name "bow with infinite and punch 2"
For me thats a scam because he sold a "bow" and not "chest with a name"

If ppl abuse the chest label system we have to add a rule or disable that feature.

This should be illegal. There will most likely be a punishment for this.
Could you give me the info of who did this and the player it happened to?
I will get with @TimForReal about it.

It is though, it is purposeful deceit and an attempt to make someone purchase an unintended item.

However, the [USERGROUP=47]@Rules Council[/USERGROUP] (If they are alive) can either re-define "Scam" for HC or any of the [USERGROUP=12]@Moderators[/USERGROUP] / [USERGROUP=9]@Admins[/USERGROUP] can also voice.

Also, we don't really need to re-define "Scam". We can just set it as a rule.

 

[xexorian]

This should be illegal. There will most likely be a punishment for this.
Could you give me the info of who did this and the player it happened to?
I will get with @TimForReal about it.


Also, we don't really need to re-define "Scam". We can just set it as a rule.

Scamming. I'd issue an infraction notice/punishment. (and have wiki admins update it under the rule with something like)

• Renaming items in trade, Renaming items in trade chat, or any thing remotely related to this behavior for the intention of scamming players is illegal and punishable.

 

[Nashah]

This is totally allowed, lol it is not illegal because it is indeed what they were selling. If you want to be sure, always make them showitem

What does showitem do other then prove someone does indeed have that object? What is keeping them from then just giving another item with the same name instead?

Example. Person A says they want to sell an infinity bow on trade chat. Person B says to show it. Person A complies with that wish and eventually they get down to confirming it. Person A could then word it as "Selling a infinity bow to B for x amount" The key part of that is the a. That means it doesn't have to be the exact item that was shown but one with that name. This may seem really really stupid, and honestly it is, but this is the way some people think. With that gray area it gives people the room to wiggle around like this.

Then we would have to be very specific with our wording to try to avoid being scammed in such a way. It's a mess that's just best avoided all together. This might be fine for us that have English as our first language but this would certainly trip up those who are not yet familiar with the nuances that come with certain words.

Edit: Sorry if I came across as harsh, that wasn't my intention. It gets me worried when people seem unaware of how something can be abused.

 

[TheManiac23]

This should be illegal. There will most likely be a punishment for this.
Could you give me the info of who did this and the player it happened to?
I will get with @TimForReal about it.


Also, we don't really need to re-define "Scam". We can just set it as a rule.

oh damn. i know it was some old player who did it and a new one was the victim but i cant remember right now
@Knirps do you maybe remember who it was?