New Enchantment Mechanics?

[Jack_Reacher]

I've heard rumors about a new Enchanting experience system, and a new "vanilla enchant effects to Heroes enchant effects" mapping. Could we discuss this before it's implemented?
Kainzo

 

[Kainzo]

I've heard rumors about a new Enchanting experience system, and a new "vanilla enchant effects to Heroes enchant effects" mapping. Could we discuss this before it's implemented?
Kainzo

It's currently in discussion in Balance - but I don't mind adding it here as well.

1) Enchanting items now provides exp instead of removing it. Removal of all other exp sources (mining/logging/crafting)
2) As the enchanter levels in enchanting, so does what they can enchant... Sharpness at level 65, protection at level 50. They'll also gain their other skills like Disenchant, etc at whatever level is appropriate.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

Is there any concern that this might "flood the market" with enchanted items?

 

[Kainzo]

Is there any concern that this might "flood the market" with enchanted items?

That is a concern, for sure.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

Personally, I really like the current system. Do you/staff/other players feel like it's broken? Why "fix" it? I have to work hard mining to level enchanter, and it takes time to get really good enchants on gear. It adds a big "hardcore" feel, and it seems like that's the way it should be. If everyone was running around in the best enchanted gear, what would the point be? That's where I see things going if it is so easy to get enchants.

 

[Zaihn]

Well there are other ways to balance out the flood of items. For example, creating a reagent cost to produce a certain enchantment will make sure they sustain value.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

Well there are other ways to balance out the flood of items. For example, creating a reagent cost to produce a certain enchantment will make sure they sustain value.

I also thought "Well this could work if there was a reagent cost". But then ... you're just adding a cost back into it, and you're at the same point you were with exp. I really like the fact that you can't just be rich and buy all the enchants you want. It takes exp, and the only way to get exp is to mine. Essentially, it costs time. Time can almost always translate into money in Herocraft, but money can't necessarily translate back into time. The time cost for enchants makes them higher value, and I personally think that makes it more hardcore.

Back to the big question: "Is the current system broken? If not - why are we trying to fix it?"

 

[Kainzo]

It most certainly is broken to have mining the only way to level ENCHANTER.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

Alright - are you going to "fix" all the other professions too? The only way to level any profession (effectively) is to mine.

 

[Zaihn]

You need to start somewhere. Don't get me wrong, I do like the current system. I can make a large amount of profit mining while I level enchanting which provides me with efficiency/unbreakable picks. But, a rework will provide a more dynamic, unique enchanting class.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

more dynamic, unique enchanting class.

This will make Enchanter both less dynamic and less unique.

Dynamic means changing. Making enchants not cost exp will cause the enchanter to just sit at max lvl, and they won't ever have to take change into account. They won't have to manage their formerly ever-changing level.

Currently, Enchanter is very unique because it is the only profession that has to continually level. If you make them sit at max level, like all other professions, they will become less unique.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

I never really liked Enchanter and never even bothered to try it, because I knew it would be constant leveling to get enchanted items (which werent really useful before), and you would never really have mastered the class. By removing the exp cost, it actually looks like a profession I would use, but to balance it, maybe add a cooldown to enchanting? Like, you can enchant an item every 1 minute.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

I never really liked Enchanter and never even bothered to try it, because I knew it would be constant leveling to get enchanted items (which werent really useful before), and you would never really have mastered the class. By removing the exp cost, it actually looks like a profession I would use, but to balance it, maybe add a cooldown to enchanting? Like, you can enchant an item every 1 minute.

A cooldown could work with the whole "time cost" thing. However, I prefer the current mechanic, because I think mining is more interesting and profitable than just standing at an enchantment table all day. I think if you realized the potential of Enchanter, you would not hesitate to try it.

 

[Zaihn]

This will make Enchanter both less dynamic and less unique.

Dynamic means changing. Making enchants not cost exp will cause the enchanter to just sit at max lvl, and they won't ever have to take change into account. They won't have to manage their formerly ever-changing level.

Currently, Enchanter is very unique because it is the only profession that has to continually level. If you make them sit at max level, like all other professions, they will become less unique.

Unique as in they will not have to mine to "efficiently level" or maintain a level range. Right now the enchanter is a mining class, with the side ability to enchant.

Dynamic as in they will be able to do more with their enchants. Sell them more efficiently, provide them to all town members efficiently, and make it so the enchanter can also enchant his stuff without having to worry about de-leveling. Efficiency is the key word here.

Right now, an enchanter has to ask himself/herself if it is worth it to offer/sell an enchant when he or she will have to later mine a solid amount to make up for the loss of exp. They also might choose not to enchant at all until they reach a certain level or get that title at 60.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

Right now, an enchanter has to ask himself/herself if it is worth it to offer/sell an enchant when he or she will have to later mine a solid amount to make up for the loss of exp. They also might choose not to enchant at all until they reach a certain level or get that title at 60.

I like this about the current Enchanter. Making good enchants so readily available would flood the market, and then enchants wouldn't be worth anything anymore. I still think Enchanters are a very unique class right now due to the fact that they have to manage their exp.

When good enchants are rare (currently this is due to the exp cost), you actually have to think about what you're doing when you enchant. You have to care about your awesome armor you made. This makes the game more hardcore and more enjoyable in my opinion.

 

[LordZelkova]

@Kainzo
Can you explain the reasoning behind this? From what Jack says and my own enchanter experience i find that this current system works well, sure they have to keep leveling but that means that good enchants cost lots of coin in return for their time and xp.

 

[Zaihn]

I like this about the current Enchanter. Making good enchants so readily available would flood the market, and then enchants wouldn't be worth anything anymore. I still think Enchanters are a very unique class right now due to the fact that they have to manage their exp.

When good enchants are rare (currently this is due to the exp cost), you actually have to think about what you're doing when you enchant. You have to care about your awesome armor you made. This makes the game more hardcore and more enjoyable in my opinion.

I cannot argue with that, especially on matters of opinion. You make a fair point, the current system really creates a "sense of worth" for enchantments. Makes them harder to obtain and decision making goes into account.

Input I can offer, is that a new mechanic (the one being proposed), would provide enchantments more readily available to the whole server. I feel as if the current system directs the enchanters into only enchanting their own stuff, items for close friends, or for large amounts of profits.

Either way works in my opinion (Pros and Cons for both), I like the idea of the new method because it adds more logical/RP path for leveling enchanting. The "sense of worth" can always be maintained by making the required reagents rare or cost heavy. Ender pearls would be a good reagent for high level enchantments, it has a decent value, not easily farmed, and sellers are tough to find. Gold Ingots could also be used (might indirectly affect the profits of miners). This could boost the market and create more overall trade.

 

[Kainzo]

It's not by design to have a master of enchants to level by mining. The system in place is a byproduct.

I think adding reagents to enchants or even a cooldown would be neat. We're trying to make the professions more unique and less "this is how you level over and over again"

 

[Jack_Reacher]

It's not by design to have a master of enchants to level by mining. The system in place is a byproduct.

I think adding reagents to enchants or even a cooldown would be neat. We're trying to make the professions more unique and less "this is how you level over and over again"

I agree that it makes more sense to have an Enchanter level by enchanting. My only concern is that good enchants would be cheapened since everyone would have them. As you mentioned, and as we have been discussing, cooldowns, reagents, or a combination of both would NEED to be implemented to make sure this doesn't happen.

Adding a reagent cost would further improve the depth of the HC economy

 

[Kainzo]

Not sure how easy adding a reagent cost would be - we're looking into it.

What you're saying is a double edged sword. Ultimately though, I think with the custom-drops coming, enchanters may lose power overall unless you need X/Y specifically.