Dev Notes - 4.91+

[Kainzo]

I think non-PVPers should do 1 of 2 things.
1. Learn to PVP and only defend yourself if neccesary. (Or bring 10 speed pots on you at all times)
2. Find somebody to protect you. (Pay them if neccesary)

This IS a PVP server, and if you're trying to avoid PVP, that's fine, but don't ask for any graces because you don't like PVP...

This is a server that HAS pvp - we are not flagged as a "PVP" server. We are flagged as an RPG server WITH pvp.

It will never be just a simple PVP server, those are dime a dozen and are plastic.

 

[kirinelf]

This is a server that HAS pvp - we are not flagged as a "PVP" server. We are flagged as an RPG server WITH pvp.

It will never be just a simple PVP server, those are dime a dozen and are plastic.

Although, and no offense meant, simply saying that doesn't change the fact that PvP is so important to the server that many people assume it's a PvP server, regardless of what it's actually advertised as. To the point that if you didn't go around saying so, no one would know the difference.

 

[Carlover1234]

Hey Kainzo, is it okay if I make some higher level skill suggestions for the new levels?

 

[Kainzo]

Although, and no offense meant, simply saying that doesn't change the fact that PvP is so important to the server that many people assume it's a PvP server, regardless of what it's actually advertised as. To the point that if you didn't go around saying so, no one would know the difference.

Which is why we're introducing integral things like Karma. We will direct and guide things via plugins.

 

[Kainzo]

Hey Kainzo, is it okay if I make some higher level skill suggestions for the new levels?

You can do whatever you want - use suggestion forums

 

[Carlover1234]

You can do whatever you want - use suggestion forums

Thanks I know! Okay I'm going to post some suggestions!

 

[Jonsoon]

Just had an interesting idea.. What if evil players can walk across soulsand at full speed?

 

[Grinch]

Just had an interesting idea.. What if evil players can walk across soulsand at full speed?

That actually would be unique and would make sense.

 

[kirinelf]

That actually would be unique and would make sense.

While unique and lore-friendly, I'm not really a fan of it 'cause evil players could abuse it for easy kills.

 

[kevinlive]

While unique and lore-friendly, I'm not really a fan of it 'cause evil players could abuse it for easy kills.

How often do you run on soulsand? Besides, it'll make a good defensive design for an evil town. Aswell as making good players think before running over/in it, plus; good players could get something else.

 

[kirinelf]

How often do you run on soulsand? Besides, it'll make a good defensive design for an evil town. Aswell as making good players think before running over/in it, plus; good players could get something else.

Necros can get soulsand from the nether and sell it/use it for their own towns. During or just before a fight, placing a few strategic blocks of soulsand will make it a very valuable tool for killing people. I'd agree it'll be very useful as a defensive thing for evil towns though, and probably wouldn't mind so much if there was a counterpart for good aligned people.

Maybe glowstone lets good aligned people run faster on them? Sorta like giving them haste whenever they're on glowstone or something?

 

[kevinlive]

Necros can get soulsand from the nether and sell it/use it for their own towns. During or just before a fight, placing a few strategic blocks of soulsand will make it a very valuable tool for killing people. I'd agree it'll be very useful as a defensive thing for evil towns though, and probably wouldn't mind so much if there was a counterpart for good aligned people.

Maybe glowstone lets good aligned people run faster on them? Sorta like giving them haste whenever they're on glowstone or something?

Sorry, but people wont be spam-placing soulsand on the ground when a fight is around.. Just no.

 

[Arturec]

So many questions/problems with Karma...

and even then, good people are getting too much good stuff so I don't think they should get a counterpart. Each should get benefits and non-benefits (Like hindering aspects)

It should be balanced. Maybe Evil lose more exp on death, while good gain more exp in general, but then evil should not be some punishment because with the current system it tunnelvisions some aspects..

What about evil guilds?
What about Evil towns?
Why do good get all these benefits for only needing to hunt evil, with the only drawback of not being able to kill randies, while evil can hunt randies but loses more exp with death etc...

if so why would anybody go evil? Most stuff is locked up in chests anyways, so "Raiding" is already iffy...

It feels like you gotta REALLY think about this plugin and everything that relates before you even test it on main server..

 

[MultiHeartGold]

Necros can get soulsand from the nether and sell it/use it for their own towns. During or just before a fight, placing a few strategic blocks of soulsand will make it a very valuable tool for killing people. I'd agree it'll be very useful as a defensive thing for evil towns though, and probably wouldn't mind so much if there was a counterpart for good aligned people.

Maybe glowstone lets good aligned people run faster on them? Sorta like giving them haste whenever they're on glowstone or something?

If someone actually bothers to even try place Soul Sand on the ground while fighting, Im going to facepalm really hard. Its like putting down a red carpet while doing a drunk fight in a bar. Not worth the time you spend in doing it.

 

[kirinelf]

Sorry, but people wont be spam-placing soulsand on the ground when a fight is around.. Just no.

Eh. Probably not while they're in the middle of a fight. Nothing stopping a mate or party member from doing so though. Or placing it before a fight and luring the target there (Or is that just good tactics?). It's the potential I'm worried about, not what most people would use it for. Anything is abusable if you think outside the box.

If someone actually bothers to even try place Soul Sand on the ground while fighting, Im going to facepalm really hard. Its like putting down a red carpet while doing a drunk fight in a bar. Not worth the time you spend in doing it.

I admit I phrased that badly. xD

So many questions/problems with Karma...

and even then, good people are getting too much good stuff so I don't think they should get a counterpart. Each should get benefits and non-benefits (Like hindering aspects)

It should be balanced. Maybe Evil lose more exp on death, while good gain more exp in general, but then evil should not be some punishment because with the current system it tunnelvisions some aspects..

What about evil guilds?
What about Evil towns?
Why do good get all these benefits for only needing to hunt evil, with the only drawback of not being able to kill randies, while evil can hunt randies but loses more exp with death etc...

if so why would anybody go evil? Most stuff is locked up in chests anyways, so "Raiding" is already iffy...

It feels like you gotta REALLY think about this plugin and everything that relates before you even test it on main server..

Yup, it's me again. xD

From a personal moral standpoint, seeing your post makes me simultaneously laugh and facepalm. "Why would anybody go evil" indeed. Maybe 'cause evil is, I'unno. Bad?

From a gameplay standpoint, you make a few good points. However, the main benefit of being evil is that you can basically do whatever you want, as long as it's within the rules. See someone log off and fill the area they logged off in with obsidian or dig out the ground under them so they suffocate or fall to their death when they log in? Legal. Track and hunt someone all over Bastion, Warshard and Forgelight? Sure, go ahead. Take bounties on anyone they want without an unwanted karma hit? Be my guest.

Most evil towns and guilds out there just roam the map killing anyone they see. Maybe every now and again they team up to raid another town. The point, as far as I know, isn't really the loot (That's a side bonus) but the experience of mass PvP. You know, 'cause that's their thing.

A good aligned player should get gameplay benefits because they lose out on gameplay freedom. They aren't able to take bounties on good or neutral players, for example, only on evil players. Ganking is a big no no, and newbie hunting is out of the question. While this might fall just under the whole 'killing randies' thing you brought up, it's still a major gameplay restriction since unless they want to take a karma hit, they're not able to fight back against an unprovoked PvP unless it's an evil player.

At that point, it's more 'why would anyone want to be good when they can do whatever they want if they're evil'? The consequences of the karma system.

I'd say it's plenty balanced.

 

[Arturec]

^
Maybe Good players lose out on gameplay freedom, but right now it doesn't cost them, just like it doesn't cost evil anything unless they die/lose.

Evil is a preferred playstyle just like good is..

Good doesn't have any drawbacks right now, either... because most "Good" people are PVEers, and while I think that bandits and looters ARE an environmental hazard, I still think that good players always sit in their towns anyways... and Karma doesn't deal with manipulating the karma system, for example, a "Good" Ranger may sell tracks on "Good" people without penalties, and there isn't really an assist program either, so what if I was playing Beguiler and my friend was about to kill somebody, why not just TP to him, and stunlock them, because I get loot, and I don't lose karma

I was mostly pointing out that if it's not balanced, and done VERY well, as in, like, Perfectly, You'll be hearing from me, or people who complain about me abusing the system... (Time to max Beguiler, Bard and Cleric!)

-Ex.2 good wizard GTPs Umbra or LO into a "Good" town. How would you feel if you noticed Wizard is getting bonus EXP and other stuff and is still making side cash by being evil.

Who's to say that now /ch Politics will become a new thing! Xd, where you can set people up and make them "Evil", then you can "Rightly" kill them...?

Yes I am a supporter of Evil, but my aim isn't to give graces to evil players, just NOT to punish them too harshly, especially when the system is so easily abused and all..

 

[Arturec]

And from a historical standpoint, Evil usually has the advantage anyways, but good has allies. (And american heroes are op, but that's not the point)

Evil usually has freedom, with the consequence that good (the hard working, the righteous and the holy) have lots of friends...

Take MacBeth or something else..

so if you want to be good, then you gotta work for it, just like Umbra works to be bad lol

and either way, IRL i believe in karma, and it seems to be that if this plugin was more based on real life karma atleast we'd see something a bit balance... lol

 

[kirinelf]

^
Maybe Good players lose out on gameplay freedom, but right now it doesn't cost them, just like it doesn't cost evil anything unless they die/lose.

Evil is a preferred playstyle just like good is..

Good doesn't have any drawbacks right now, either... because most "Good" people are PVEers, and while I think that bandits and looters ARE an environmental hazard, I still think that good players always sit in their towns anyways... and Karma doesn't deal with manipulating the karma system, for example, a "Good" Ranger may sell tracks on "Good" people without penalties, and there isn't really an assist program either, so what if I was playing Beguiler and my friend was about to kill somebody, why not just TP to him, and stunlock them, because I get loot, and I don't lose karma

I was mostly pointing out that if it's not balanced, and done VERY well, as in, like, Perfectly, You'll be hearing from me, or people who complain about me abusing the system... (Time to max Beguiler, Bard and Cleric!)

-Ex.2 good wizard GTPs Umbra or LO into a "Good" town. How would you feel if you noticed Wizard is getting bonus EXP and other stuff and is still making side cash by being evil.

Who's to say that now /ch Politics will become a new thing! Xd, where you can set people up and make them "Evil", then you can "Rightly" kill them...?

Yes I am a supporter of Evil, but my aim isn't to give graces to evil players, just NOT to punish them too harshly, especially when the system is so easily abused and all..

I admit, I didn't quite think that far. Assuming other people have the same moral standards as yourself doesn't quite work out sometimes.

To sum up your post, karma hit/gain points aren't registered unless a player is actually killed. A bunch of Good players could easily work together with an Evil player to harass a random player and let the Evil player land the final hit and splitting the loot. All the benefits of an Evil player, none of the drawbacks of being a Good player

gabizou What do you think?

 

[kirinelf]

And from a historical standpoint, Evil usually has the advantage anyways, but good has allies. (And american heroes are op, but that's not the point)

Evil usually has freedom, with the consequence that good (the hard working, the righteous and the holy) have lots of friends...

Take MacBeth or something else..

so if you want to be good, then you gotta work for it, just like Umbra works to be bad lol

This is definitely true. I don't claim to be a knight in shining armor or anything. My armor is way too rusted and pitted.

I'm jaded and cynical, but I still try to help out, that's all. I'm definitely working for it. I don't think there's anything wrong in trying to encourage to server to be a little more kind hearted, a little bit more helpful, more friendly. As it is now you could be chatting happily to someone in chat and that person kills you the next day and that's just the way it is and everyone says that's because it's hardcore. Surely you can still be hardcore without being a complete and utter jerk?

There's really no point bringing in historical standpoints here because they were real and had real repercussions. This is the internet, with almost total anonymity and the absolute freedom to do whatever you want with little to no consequences, especially on a Minecraft server like this. Things are done on a daily basis here that would get a restraint order in real life, or at least fines/jailtime for theft. There's no point comparing a game like this to real life, although one does hope that people aren't as bad in real life as they act in a game.

 

[Arturec]

Lol I know, but this is also an RPG server (Thanks Kainzo) and people want to Play a Role as somebody else...