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Suggestion bleeds and samurai

draconis99

Holy
Retired Staff
Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Considering how strike costs more stamina that bash, doesnt have a silence, and can have its damage cut off with a bandage/chakra, I was thinking about how we could make the skill more worthwhile!

Samurai seem to be upset with how berserk works and are a bit upset with only having bleeds for attacks, so I was thinking about how to fix that as well and came up with a solution!

Why not make bleed effects slow down movement slightly? It makes sense that when you have a gushing wound, you cant run away as quickly or jump around. Of course it wont be as grevious as the slow from casting, but it's enough to keep most enemies from fleeing from you.

I was as well thinking how valuable a lvl 60 skill for samurais would be if it were an AOE bleed. The initial damage is low, but the bleed effect slows them and either starts with low damage, slowly doing more until the end - or starts out high and slowly trickles the damage lower at the end. Samurais would be the ultimate assassin killers - slowing them down and finishing them off.
 

iTzDeXy

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Really good idea but I think a simple version of this would be to make "one" last a little longer,
saves re-coding how a skill works and everything and lets face it, if a sammy got a skill that slows players down everyone will cry that they are op :D
 

draconis99

Holy
Retired Staff
Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
thats why its only melee range - like cleave. As well, bleeds are removed by bandage, and chakra.
 

draconis99

Holy
Retired Staff
Max Legacy Supporter
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
That or I just thought of a new ability for samurai. No idea what to call it, but the samurai charges X amount of blocks in the direction at blinding speeds, slashing all opponents on his way and causing bleed. Aoe of like 2-3 block radius as he charges. Would be pretty cool.
 

ADaringEnchilada

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Talking with Draconis in teamspeak as he suggested these, I'm certain it would be a huge buff to the Samurai gameplay, without necessarily affecting the balance.

For starters, the Samurai class is currently a decent class in terms of gameplay, however it becomes too repetitive. Altering the bleeds to do the same amount of overall damage, but stacking the initial damage to be desirably larger than the following damages would give the Samurai two bonuses: 1) Dispels (I think adding bandage to one of the dispelling skills for all bleeds, including mortal wound which I'll return to later, is an excellent idea both in lore and balance) will become slightly less effective and 2) The skill would start to become ever so much more realistic, as it makes sense that a severe wound would slowly stop bleeding so badly, as blood pressure drops and clotting begins. Whoo, platelet action.

Secondly are the slows. While I'm not certain as to whether or not it is possible to code a weaker slow than icy aura or ice bolt currently inflict, I believe that the first tick should inflict a slow for 5ish seconds. If others believe this to unbalance the class, allocating the slow to Mortal Wound exclusively would be acceptable as well. In addition to this, only the first tick of damage, or I suppose in the case of mortal wound the strike that is inflicted, should cause a slow for so long unlike icy aura which slows every tick of damage. This would allow Samurai to catch up to a fleeing foe temporarily, but later allowing the opponent yet another chance to flee.

On the topic of draconis' suggested skill, essentially a charge, I think would make an excellent replacement for berserk. My take on the skill is this-
The player uses the skill, allowing them to charge forward 5-7 blocks. All foes between the user and the destination (as well as one block to the right of the player, as though the sword had been sweeping off to the side) take 90 damage as well as being critically wounded, inflicting a bleed that does 5 ticks of 15-25 damage over 15 seconds and inflicting a slow on the first tick of damage. The skill ideally would take between 4-6 stamina and could take mana as well, however that seems strange for the class. I suggest the skill be named Banzai, to match with the Samurai class lore.

Marginally off-topic: Mortal Wound currently does physical type damage, understandable because of the first hit but the proceeding bleed does little to no damage because of armor mitigation. This effectively makes mortal wound useless against all warriors, and select healers/rogues (ie bard and cleric). My suggestion is to reduce the initial strike by 25-35% (in order to balance out the damage against armored foes) and leave the bleed damage unchanged, while switching the skill's damage type to magic rather than physical, as having a skill name mortal wound would imply that the wound inflicted is one such that all armor has been by-passed and the attack had inflicted a severe wound that opened the victim to extreme blood loss.

So, quick recap (tl:dr)
-Samurai DoTs (bleed, mortal wound, banzai if it is implemented) should start at a higher damage and decrease per tick, but keeping the overall damage the same. This is merely in attempts to imitate realism, while slightly affecting dispelling skills.
-Skills, such as bleed and mortal wound, should inflict a slow on the first tick, and only the first tick. If it becomes too much of a problem, apply this only to mortal wound and possibly banzai.
-Mortal wound currently inflicts physical type damage, this means the skill is only effective against unarmored foes. Without changing the damage type to magic from physical, the skill becomes more cumbersome than productive in combat against a majority of classes.
-Replace the skill berserk with the suggested banzai. The idea of banzai shortened is you charge forward, striking everyone in the way and inflicting a bleed, similar to a weak mortal wound without the healing nerf.

I do ask that you please read the entire post before replying to/rating it. Suggestions for stamina, damage, duration, and basically anything else would be appreciated- as a Samurai since the start of heroes, I'd love to see some new moves added to the class, though I would not like to unbalance the class in favor of it. Though not necessarily a rebalance, it is a retooling as the latest skill-berserk- is almost useless due to several flaws. Similarly, the loss of inversion hurt the Samurai class a lot. Although One is an extremely nice skill, it was also the planned 60, but replacing inversion with berserk was not favorable to the class at all.

 

Mr krall

TNT
Joined
Feb 3, 2012
Talking with Draconis in teamspeak as he suggested these, I'm certain it would be a huge buff to the Samurai gameplay, without necessarily affecting the balance.

For starters, the Samurai class is currently a decent class in terms of gameplay, however it becomes too repetitive. Altering the bleeds to do the same amount of overall damage, but stacking the initial damage to be desirably larger than the following damages would give the Samurai two bonuses: 1) Dispels (I think adding bandage to one of the dispelling skills for all bleeds, including mortal wound which I'll return to later, is an excellent idea both in lore and balance) will become slightly less effective and 2) The skill would start to become ever so much more realistic, as it makes sense that a severe wound would slowly stop bleeding so badly, as blood pressure drops and clotting begins. Whoo, platelet action.

Secondly are the slows. While I'm not certain as to whether or not it is possible to code a weaker slow than icy aura or ice bolt currently inflict, I believe that the first tick should inflict a slow for 5ish seconds. If others believe this to unbalance the class, allocating the slow to Mortal Wound exclusively would be acceptable as well. In addition to this, only the first tick of damage, or I suppose in the case of mortal wound the strike that is inflicted, should cause a slow for so long unlike icy aura which slows every tick of damage. This would allow Samurai to catch up to a fleeing foe temporarily, but later allowing the opponent yet another chance to flee.

On the topic of draconis' suggested skill, essentially a charge, I think would make an excellent replacement for berserk. My take on the skill is this-
The player uses the skill, allowing them to charge forward 5-7 blocks. All foes between the user and the destination (as well as one block to the right of the player, as though the sword had been sweeping off to the side) take 90 damage as well as being critically wounded, inflicting a bleed that does 5 ticks of 15-25 damage over 15 seconds and inflicting a slow on the first tick of damage. The skill ideally would take between 4-6 stamina and could take mana as well, however that seems strange for the class. I suggest the skill be named Banzai, to match with the Samurai class lore.

Marginally off-topic: Mortal Wound currently does physical type damage, understandable because of the first hit but the proceeding bleed does little to no damage because of armor mitigation. This effectively makes mortal wound useless against all warriors, and select healers/rogues (ie bard and cleric). My suggestion is to reduce the initial strike by 25-35% (in order to balance out the damage against armored foes) and leave the bleed damage unchanged, while switching the skill's damage type to magic rather than physical, as having a skill name mortal wound would imply that the wound inflicted is one such that all armor has been by-passed and the attack had inflicted a severe wound that opened the victim to extreme blood loss.

So, quick recap (tl:dr)
-Samurai DoTs (bleed, mortal wound, banzai if it is implemented) should start at a higher damage and decrease per tick, but keeping the overall damage the same. This is merely in attempts to imitate realism, while slightly affecting dispelling skills.
-Skills, such as bleed and mortal wound, should inflict a slow on the first tick, and only the first tick. If it becomes too much of a problem, apply this only to mortal wound and possibly banzai.
-Mortal wound currently inflicts physical type damage, this means the skill is only effective against unarmored foes. Without changing the damage type to magic from physical, the skill becomes more cumbersome than productive in combat against a majority of classes.
-Replace the skill berserk with the suggested banzai. The idea of banzai shortened is you charge forward, striking everyone in the way and inflicting a bleed, similar to a weak mortal wound without the healing nerf.

I do ask that you please read the entire post before replying to/rating it. Suggestions for stamina, damage, duration, and basically anything else would be appreciated- as a Samurai since the start of heroes, I'd love to see some new moves added to the class, though I would not like to unbalance the class in favor of it. Though not necessarily a rebalance, it is a retooling as the latest skill-berserk- is almost useless due to several flaws. Similarly, the loss of inversion hurt the Samurai class a lot. Although One is an extremely nice skill, it was also the planned 60, but replacing inversion with berserk was not favorable to the class at all.


I agree! I really would want to see some changes for the better with samurai!
 

spartanman118

Legacy Supporter 3
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
I think the class would once again become balanced (but you're forgetting that proceeding a mortal wound the target's heals will decrease by 50%).
 

Aetosion

Obsidian
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Mortalwound is marginally useful on Disciples and Paladin, but that's the end of it.

How do I fight as a Samurai? Keep Bleed proc'd, and spam Bash. I'll disarm or bladegrasp when necessary, and if I've got the timing down I can flip Berserk on and combo it with bladegrasp (nearly impossible to do considering stamina). One can catch up, but also rapes stamina.

So basically, spam Bash and pop Bleeds.
 
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