Straight forward new rule.

[RedKhan]

Assuming this is not already the system in place, if it is, then completely disregard this post.

If a rule is not clearly stated on the wiki, at the time of it's supposed breaking, then no rules were broken and the player/s in question shall go unpunished.

This is in a bid to clear confusion regarding rules, which is so common. The most recent example is obviously the "Stealing from a town you are a part of" ruling.
ADaringEnchilada maintains that Kainzo/Apherdite said this was illegal in his thread.

This highly targeted theft is obvious it was intentional and such actions should be completely illegal, and it would appear Kainzo agrees with this point...

In this case, I'm using Aph and Kain, considering they are two main founders and have precedence over the lower staff...
...We not only have two major staff supporting this situation...

Meanwhile in ShortyD's post we have an unclear response regarding that specific rule from Kainzo and Apherdite, and Seratt saying that it most certainly is legal, quoting the current rules.

Now this thread is not arguing either side of the aforementioned rule (There are already threads open to that discussion). It is purely to establish that - Until it is written in the wiki rules section, it is not an official rule and therefore players cannot be punished for breaking it.

If a player commits an act that does not fall under current official rules and a rule is thereafter created to prevent such an action, then that's great. However the player should not be held accountable for breaking a law that did not exist anywhere but in the minds of mods/admins.

If you disagree with this, I really think you have to justify why. Players deserve to have a surefire way of knowing if what they are about to do is legal or not.

 

[MD_Bay]

I agree. There's been a lot of confusion with rules lately it seems.

 

[Danda]

I agree. There's been a lot of confusion with rules lately it seems.

that's because there are ALOT of unwritten rules

I disagree that they should get off scott free. As they still broke a rule but perhaps a lesser sentence/warning

 

[RedKhan]

The problem with unwritten rules is that nobody can read them

I disagree that they should get off scott free. As they still broke a rule but perhaps a lesser sentence/warning

But that's what I'm saying. They wouldn't have broken a rule. If it isn't posted on the wiki; which is very often what players are told to refer to if they have a query, then how are they to know that it's not allowed?

You'd effectively be punishing somebody for not being able to read the minds of those in charge, or for not noticing a rule only established by a post midway through a lesser read thread.

The internet e-bonics rule is a great example, it's the first time I've seen a rule specifically banning the use of internet poop - BUT because it's there plain as day for all to see, people know not to do it. And if they do, they will be punished because there can be no arguing about how clear the rule is.

EDIT: Haha, utter facepalm moment. I can't actually see the Me-me rule on the HC wiki. But I definitely think it should be added.

 

[MD_Bay]

Ya. Not fair for someone to get banned/suspended for a rule that they can't read because it's not written haha.

 

[Dsawemd]

Perhaps a simpler solution: put this at the top of all pages with rules.

WARNING: WIKI is Updated often, but may not contain the current rules in all cases. The Wiki can be superseded by any and all Admin (mod, guide, etc) declarations in game or on the forums. Ask in game or on the forums for clarification on a rule.

BOOM. and now we can still be lazy about updating wiki.

also, back when i joined, i remember updating it myself, to help keep track of cleric skills mana costs as they were being sorted out and introduced. I cant edit it anymore, I assume people were messing with the official numbers too much

 

[RedKhan]

In my opinion that would make the wiki rules too hazy at the least. I think like my poll Q says, that they need to be set in stone.

I mean there are always rules that go without saying, getting abusive for example. But this not only leaves room for people to be unfairly punished, it also leaves room for deliberate offenders to plead ignorance, and they would be justified to do so.

The admin/mods superseding the written rules would also be an issue as has been witnessed (More or less the reason for this whole thread) when they misinterpret one another on the laws of the land. I.E. One mod says yes, the other says no - Player is punished because of a breakdown in communication.

If it's an issue with finding the time to update the rules (Which I imagine it is, I know you guys have lives outwith HC and more important issues to attend to) Then perhaps trusted players could submit airtight write ups of approved rules to admins, then it's just a copy paste job for the guys up top.

 

[Kainzo]

No matter what game, no matter what area, no matter what country - there will be toe steppers of rules, no matter how clearly you define them.

Happens in real life, it will happen in games. Rules are left open-ended for a reason - sometimes situations cannot be put into categories. There are grey areas, ones we try to reduce in occurrence.

It is an ongoing journey to try and perfect the system as much as possible, but any system is flawed and will have disadvantages.

The flexibility of the system to influence change and understand the demands of said system. That is most important

 

[strongholdx]

Yeah, kain once agin hits it on the spot - thats why he is here. He (and the other founders too) is judge jurry and executioner. No matter what you do, Rules can never dictate everything, thats why we have law enforcment

 

[Seratt]

Thanks Kain, my thoughts exactly. I've been too busy at work today to read up on this thread.

We will be revising certain things/updating the rules here and there, but as Kain said, we leave some things open to question for a good reason.