Samurai VS. Thieves/Ninja

[Bogrin]

In History Samurai have always used bows and Katana, or a 2 handed variant. An example of this is the Muramasa, the extremely deadly weapon used by many samurai. Ninjas (while distorted by popular culture) have usually used either a Ninja-to or some less conventional weapons like a scythe attached to a chain. The Thieves were the downtrodden of society, the poor who turned to lawlessness simply to survive. They had cheap and rusty weapons, even shivves at times. Now tell me, what is the point of the Samurai, a semi-ranged, mostly CQB unit to exist if there is a group of people with /sneak, ranged attacks and diamond swords, who get armor and that ability to turn invisible. Samurai did not use Ninja Stars, they used Bows. Who would have a more powerful weapon, a rich aristocrat who trained all their life, intensively, with a undying devotion, or a poor street urchin turned to Thievery. Or a farmer who turned to espionage to stop the Samurai feudal system. The Samurai, as we know it on the server, should lose the Ninja Star, keep the Bow, and lose iron boots. The Ninja and the Thief should be downgraded to Iron swords, and keep whatever abilities they have, even smoke bomb. I am simply trying to strike a balance between the classes, and when the Samurai, a full frontal attack class, has equal equipment to that of a espionage class like the ninja or the thief, who should be sneaking around and hiding, and has fewer abilities, i feel like there is a serious problem.

 

[robacollver]

Good idea there are multiple specializations like this but i noticed it souds like the weapons are from deadliest warriors lol like smoke egg and scythe/chain and bows and katana, but i see what you mean i know many classes like this for example Paladin at level 5 gets full heal none of the healer specializations have anything close to as good as that I say the monk should get that skill.

 

[Bogrin]

Also, the Samurai had the Yumi, a 6 foot bow which took extreme strength to draw back, and they did NOT have ninja stars.

 

[R3xz]

Can we not nerf more rogue specializations any further and maybe add more abilities to them that would actually make sense for the rogues?

I see a bunch of abilities by the warrior paths that should belong to the rouges from the very start. For an example, the jump ability of the dragoon, or the speed increase of the samurai, and why the hell are samurai throwing star and using bow when they are the only warrior path to have access to the strongest sword in game?

Throw more armor and defenses for warriors, make them less mobile, increase their damage if you have to with axes and pickaxes, shovel/spade w/e. But please keep rogues like rogues, give them more accessibility to speed and maneuverability, range abilities, deceptions and so on. I know changes will be made to the thief and ninja said by Kain, so i hope these changes reflect similarly to my ideas.

 

[MrJudo]

r3xz the thing is maybe increase rogues damage with iron swords abit more and take away diamond sword samurai is a speed self sacrafising class but rogue has to much things i mean safefall and blackjack we get speed you get stun. plus you get sneak and all of those things we get nothing that can make us a slight bit of invis.

 

[donnymeyer]

i agree with r3xz. if a rouge, a stealth, quick and coordinated soldier cant jump high or lunge or even sprint, they aren' t rouge. yes, we can stun targest and we can sneak, but these are the basics. rouges are assasians. and considering that the ranger cant use an iron sword anymore, they should have the power to sprint, jump and lunge to kill their target. there rouges! warriors are the traditional fighters with heavy armor! warriors are honestly OP! they have awesome armor, the best weapons and still have the skills a lightweight rouge should have! even an iron sword , the weapon of all soldiers, has been taken away form rangers! i know that these classes are unfinished, but all rouge specs should be able to use an iron sword considering they started with an iron sword as a rouge. EDIT: if you want a balance between the classes, tell kain to make warrior/ samuari less OP, they have everything!

 

[Kainzo]

We're working on revamping thief/rogue/beastmaster - shit takes time.

 

[donnymeyer]

ok. i didnt mean to say your slow (which your not, shit does take time)

 

[greyp]

I hate to say it, I agree with Bogrin. When the rogue can take on a warrior with full iron because he uses a diamond sword theirs something wrong. On the other hand I do like how the classes are set up, and I enjoy the game as is.

 

[donnymeyer]

lemme guess: you got killed by a rouge with a dimoand sword? considering warriors have 3x the health of a rouge, a sword that can kill pretty fast and the manuverabality of what a rouge should have, if you get killed by a rouge with a dimoand sword while in iron armor any you have an iron sword, your doing something wrong. Rouges are assasians: fast moving, light armored, and well, but lightly, armed. i disagree 100%

 

[MrJudo]

ok i am a samurai i am lvl 43 i know samurai here, its bladegrasp ( Melee Immunity ) with lag lasts for like 1 - 2 seconds depending on lag and plus the speed is only 10 seconds long . samurai needs some way of survival or something. Wow wee we have a diamond sword so wat the dragoons have a diamond spade that does just as much damage plus you can sneak on us stun for 2 secs do another hit and we dead. So please dont say we have everything like eeveryone does. ( Give us a Meditation skill and this would be fine ).

>>>>>DON'T SAY WE HAVE EVERYTHING<<<<<​

 

[donnymeyer]

you dont have EVERYTHING... btw i was refering to warriors alltogether. you guys bitch about how you have stone swords as a warrior, but you can block dammage, you van have armor that most specs cant have, and great weapons and easy mobility!!!!!!!!! rouges NEED movment skills that warriors have (even though they shouldnt)! and you want a new skill ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! you OP rouges in almost every way!!! ok. we have sneak and dimoand swords and one archer spec...... anything else that great? not really! YOU DONT NEED A MEDITATION SKILL THAT WOULD MAKE YOU GOD POWERED! we can stun you, you can most likely withstand and kill us!!! get over it! if you thing we are sooo op, send a whiney letter to kain like an 8 year old. btw we cant outrun you because you have the mobility skills a rouge should have.
>>>>>>>>>WE AREN'T OP<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

[Spwizzard2]

Although I am trying to be non-biased on this as I like to look at balanced gameplay, I believe that sneak isn't as great as everyone makes it out to be, at least for combat purposes. As I see it, there are two ways of confrontation:

Head-on Assult, both people see each other. Sneak does little to no good here if its in an open area. But people aren't arguing about this. They argue about...

Sneak Attacks, where one person (presumably the rogue) sneaks up on another (the warrior) and stabs him in the back while he isn't looking. Now some people say that a fast sneak-run helps us here, but why would we need sneak anyways? The opponent would be turned around, not looking. And its not like we can run faster than anyone else, so why does it matter that we are sneak? Of course, if the opponent does turn around, then it does. But rarely do people remember to look behind them....

 

[donnymeyer]

FINALLY SOMEONE OTHER THAN A ROUGE REALIZES SNEAK ISNT OP IN ALL BATTLE TYPES! all warriors- even without /sneak, if someone sneaks up behind you because you didnt see them, you die either way.

 

[Afro7897]

Although I am trying to be non-biased on this as I like to look at balanced gameplay, I believe that sneak isn't as great as everyone makes it out to be, at least for combat purposes. As I see it, there are two ways of confrontation:

Head-on Assault, both people see each other. Sneak does little to no good here if its in an open area. But people aren't arguing about this. They argue about...

Sneak Attacks, where one person (presumably the rogue) sneaks up on another (the warrior) and stabs him in the back while he isn't looking. Now some people say that a fast sneak-run helps us here, but why would we need sneak anyways? The opponent would be turned around, not looking. And its not like we can run faster than anyone else, so why does it matter that we are sneak? Of course, if the opponent does turn around, then it does. But rarely do people remember to look behind them....

It matters that you sneak because you can set up and execute ambushes with an added degree of stealth. Those who were around when sneak was a donor only ability know just how advantageous it is when used correctly. I can't emphasize enough picking your fights when each class isn't made to handle every situation so why should you be able to win in more than a few scenarios? If you end up in a situation that doesn't stack the odds in your favor, change it so it does or run.

 

[Nuin]

In regards to ranged damage...

Samurais should have bows. (Historically accurate. I should know, it is one of my favorite points in history.)
Ninjas should have stars. (Ninjas were the opposite of samurai, trained in the art of espionage.)
Thieves should have throwing knives. (I know the skill does not exist yet, but it is something that should be in their arsenal.)

Also, ninjas and thieves should use flint for ammo, not eggs. Eggs are rare to drop from chickens and makes the spell practically worthless. Perhaps make each cast of Star/KnifeThrow use 2-3 flint at a time. This way, eggs can be utilized for their vanilla reason: cakes.

In regards to Sneak...

Sneak is not OP. It is simply how it is used and how best to defend against it. Since many people are choosing the path of Rogue at present, I find myself always, ALWAYS finding a safe spot to rest. Always looking behind you when out in the open doesn't hurt either. Anyone can sneak up behind you, and it doesn't take an ability like /sneak to do it.