[Reminder @Kainzo] "Farming exp" -> "Gathering/Harvesting exp"

[rahlzel]

As requested, this is a brief reminder to @Kainzo about what he and I discussed in-game:

1. Alchemists should get some kind of exp for gathering materials. They need Farming exp, but...
2. "Farming exp" for Alchemists sounds weird. It should be renamed for clarity.
3. The Farmer class does not gain exp from planting, even though planting is part of IRL farming. He only gains exp from gathering/harvesting*.

Therefore, it seems logical to:

• Change "Farming exp" to "Gathering exp", and allow Alchemists to benefit from it, along with both previous "Farming exp" classes (Farmer, Merchant), and of course, Level 1+ Crafters.

* Just realized - "Harvesting exp" might be another option to consider instead of "gathering exp". The Official Wiki seems to use the word "Harvesting" quite often with regard to farming. "Gathering" might actually be more vague. I'm leaning towards "Harvesting exp".

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

@rahlzel please clarify the lore justification behind Alchemists receiving exp for farming/gathering?

I'm considering this in terms of the balance implications between the professions, so I'm asking why farming exp would be given to Alchemist if additional sources of exp aren't being given to any of the other non-farming professions.

Which materials are you referring to? I'm thinking you mean materials needed for brewing potions, so this would only be netherwart and sugar pretty much? Alchemists wouldn't be harvesting cane in enough quantities for their sugar needs to justify receiving exp for this activity. Netherwart, I can see the reasoning but again the quantities wouldn't be so high that it would be a regular activity for an Alchemist.

As I understand it, the code is set up such that exp sources are grouped. So Farming/gathering exp covers a whole group of activities, ie harvesting cane, pumpkins, melons, netherwart etc. Some extra coding would be required to give exp just for one item and it's inconsistent with the system of grouping exp sources.

 

[rahlzel]

There's only two professions that gain experience from farming - Farmers and Merchants. Furthermore, as per the Minecraft Wiki, Alchemists can benefit from 4 different sources of farming for brewing - carrots, melons, netherwart, and sugar. I would argue that Alchemists and Farmers are the only classes that would need farming exp, although I can understand it being given to Merchants since it's a more generic profession and it's selling what it's gathering. To my knowledge, no other profession would ever need to harvest a plant in order to do their duty. Alchemists do.

However, the point of this change was never to complicate things by coding in experience only for those 4 sources. It was to simplify it by building on a realistic base from which classes that need to farm should get farming experience (all Awkward Potions need Netherwart). The fact that they don't get experience for it is troublesome to both me and, from what I could gather, Kainzo as well. Although perhaps he'd prefer to speak on his own behalf. The idea was to give Alchemists total farming exp similar to Farmers and Merchants.

Please forgive me if you or anyone else feels that I'm overstepping my bounds by making these suggestions. I'm certainly no one of titled importance. I'm just a simple player with a penchant for perfectionism and logic.

EDIT: Here's a breakdown of where all the experience goes in each of the eight professions:

Building 2
Crafting 5
Farming 2
Fishing 3
Logging 5
Shearing 2
Taming 2
Mining 7
Skills where noted 6

I think it's safe to say that adding one more profession to "Farming" would be not only be logical, but balance-safe.

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

All suggestions welcome. On reflection, I wish I'd moderated my tone. Live and learn!

My main concern is balancing the exp sources for the various professions. I'm concerned that if Alchemist gains Farming exp, it will be the easiest profession to level apart from Merchant.

Current sources of exp for professions:

Alchemist - Mining, Logging, some Skills
Enchanter - Mining, Crafting (is this working?), some Skills (Disenchant only)
Engineer - Mining, Logging, some Skills
Farmer - Logging, Farming, Shearing, Fishing, Taming, some Skills, Building
Merchant - Mining, Logging, Farming, Shearing, Crafting (not working), some Skills, Fishing, Taming, Building
Miner - Mining, some Skills
Runesmith - Mining, Fishing
Smith - Mining, Logging, Crafting (working), some Skills

Alchemist is, IMHO, already easier to level than Enchanter, Miner and Runesmith, and is similar to Engineer.

Unlike many on the server, I greatly prefer leveling with Farming as opposed to Mining. With an extensive farm, particularly with cane (Farming exp) and lots of sheep (Shearing exp), you're pretty much set.

In other words, if you have a good farm set-up then Farming is a major exp source.

So if you give Farming exp to Alchemist, it becomes the only class to have 2 major exp sources - both Farming and Mining exp - apart from Merchant. I think this will make it so much easier to level than all other professions apart from Merchant. And this concerns me from a balance perspective.

@Balance Team @Yavool @Jonsoon @Kainzo

 

[rahlzel]

You make some excellent points.

It sounds like the main question is thusly: Does the risk of making Alchemist the 2nd easiest profession to level outweigh the gain of allowing the profession to get experience by doing what it does normally in everyday crafting (harvesting select crops)?

I can't in good conscience make a logical decision here based on the fact that I'm new and unfamiliar with the system, so I'll humbly concede and take a bystander perspective while this is deliberated.

Thank you for the intriguing discussion.

 

[Kainzo]

As requested, this is a brief reminder to @Kainzo about what he and I discussed in-game:

1. Alchemists should get some kind of exp for gathering materials. They need Farming exp, but...
2. "Farming exp" for Alchemists sounds weird. It should be renamed for clarity.
3. The Farmer class does not gain exp from planting, even though planting is part of IRL farming. He only gains exp from gathering/harvesting*.

Therefore, it seems logical to:

• Change "Farming exp" to "Gathering exp", and allow Alchemists to benefit from it, along with both previous "Farming exp" classes (Farmer, Merchant), and of course, Level 1+ Crafters.

* Just realized - "Harvesting exp" might be another option to consider instead of "gathering exp". The Official Wiki seems to use the word "Harvesting" quite often with regard to farming. "Gathering" might actually be more vague. I'm leaning towards "Harvesting exp".

I like the idea of renaming it to Harvesting, despite anything else to do with adding it other classes.