Suggestion pvp safe chests, region vs lwc

[Triptrippen]

Thread statement: To discuss balance between LWC vs Region for the use of protecting chests against other players.

Personal region: 130 chests for 1000 souls + rent (133 souls per month)
LWC: 4 chests for 1000 souls, doesn't need an ugly block over a chest.

This seems to that LWC is rather a worthless feature considering you can do the same with a region, but incredibly cheaper.

So for 12 souls we can protect 4 chests using a region with a rent of .8 souls per month.
It will take 65 years for it to be more cost effective to use lwc.

So for starters I'd think it would bring more balance to this system if we increase rent dramatically.

I also think that perhaps instead of that, we could make chests in regions not protected somehow. Such as a rule against putting a block over chests to avoid paying a LWC fee. However doing that would cause more work for enforcement officers, and nobody likes more work.

The thing thats hot in gaming right now is action oriented pvp, and thats why I'm here at herocraft. The above problem is the reason I quit playing a year or so ago. I came for awesome pvp and only found out that its far too easy to protect your items from enemies.


So please if anybody has any ideas to help this situation; post!

 

[Jack_Reacher]

The thing you're missing is that you can place an LWC'd chest (almost) anywhere - and with little effort. You can have them outside your personal region and town. This is why they are so useful. Moreover, they are useful in towns where you want to have a protected chest that none of your townmates can steal from.

 

[Zephael_]

Also, implementing a TNT plugin was mentioned recently, and if and when that comes in, region chests won't be so safe, but I'm assuming LWCs will be

 

[Templar_James]

Also, implementing a TNT plugin was mentioned recently, and if and when that comes in, region chests won't be so safe, but I'm assuming LWCs will be

That idea has been tossed out the window now as there are things that's are more important

 

[Zephael_]

That idea has been tossed out the window now as there are things that's are more important

I saw Kainzo mention TNT implementation only 2 days ago in o chat.

 

[Templar_James]

I saw Kainzo mention TNT implementation only 2 days ago in o chat.

It would be a stupid idea to implement as of right now where the server just needs to focus on classes

 

[Yavool]

region protected chests are still vulnerable to block glitch duping/exploiting, whereas lwcs are not. unfortunately there are those on here that are still block glitching to gain access. i just had it happen to me yesterday within a personal region that otherwise was impossible to gain entry. so the lwcs definitely have their place, even at their steep cost.

for lost souls, the general protocol i suggest is:
1) get white listed
2) earn 500s through mining
3) get a lwc
4) use it often
5)
6) profit

-yav

 

[Triptrippen]

region protected chests are still vulnerable to block glitch duping/exploiting, whereas lwcs are not. unfortunately there are those on here that are still block glitching to gain access. i just had it happen to me yesterday within a personal region that otherwise was impossible to gain entry. so the lwcs definitely have their place, even at their steep cost.

-yav

I think its important to note here that Yavool is the 3rd richest on the server , I interpret from his post that he uses personal regions instead of LWC to protect his valuables because he's saying he got glitched/exploited out of some of his valuables.

So pay 500$ and be for sure protected or 12$ and perhaps somebody will get themself banned for exploiting and taking your stuff.
Nobody so far thinks this is incredibly imba? Doing it the personal region way is like here have 97.4% off the cost!

 

[Jack_Reacher]

So pay 500$ and be for sure protected or 12$ and perhaps somebody will get themself banned for exploiting and taking your stuff.
Nobody so far thinks this is incredibly imba? Doing it the personal region way is like here have 97.4% off the cost!

The thing you're missing is that you can place an LWC'd chest (almost) anywhere - and with little effort. You can have them outside your personal region and town. This is why they are so useful. Moreover, they are useful in towns where you want to have a protected chest that none of your townmates can steal from.

 

[Triptrippen]

The thing you're missing is that you can place an personal regioned chest (almost) anywhere - and with little effort. You can have them outside your town. This is why they are so useful. Moreover, its against the rules to steal from your town mates.
- Fixed that for Jack

 

[Yavool]

I think its important to note here that Yavool is the 3rd richest on the server , I interpret from his post that he uses personal regions instead of LWC to protect his valuables because he's saying he got glitched/exploited out of some of his valuables.

So pay 500$ and be for sure protected or 12$ and perhaps somebody will get themself banned for exploiting and taking your stuff.
Nobody so far thinks this is incredibly imba? Doing it the personal region way is like here have 97.4% off the cost!

I didn't quite understand your flow of reasoning; perhaps that's on me for not being able to understand eloquent writing. My apologies.

Two hours of mining with enchanted iron picks can net a person 500s to buy a LWC. It's not hard to do so. Because of that ease, raising rent wouldn't make much of an impact either, except to make the curve more difficult for Lost Souls, who are already getting the brunt of the assault by opportunistic PVPers. Making them work harder just to make rent is just going to create frustration from the new base of members, and ultimate drive them away.

Kainzo specifically created a new level of protected regions for whitelisted people to give them protection as of this map. Last map, you had to have contributed $30 to get such a privilege. I don't want to put words in Kainzo's mouth, but it can be inferred that he wished for every member of HC to have some level of protection against their stuff getting stolen. Perhaps that can be construed as an anti-PVP position, as is the diluting of the HC experience by the future addition of the PVE world Shrine.

How he chooses to address this move away from PVP is unclear; but I don't see raising the rent or creating a no block above a chest rule as the way, especially due to the issue of enforcement as Templar stated.

More on point would to be to re-implement the arenas, create a Haven-based ranking and reward PVP system, and have ranked tournaments with specialized unique rewards.

What isn't working is the exploitation of Lost Souls by high level specialized classes. As said before, this is creating upset and frustration within the new player base. Ultimately, this will lead to fewer people on HC due to the unfair advantage that capped (and currently unbalanced/OP) classes have over the Lost Souls. Karma was an attempt to address this; it looks like it failed as a concept and is off the table now.

An alternative suggestion to addressing this would be to disallow specialized classes to be able to attack Lost Souls. This is a bit of a radical suggestion, and would further dilute the PVP world, but has merit in the grander scheme of promoting this server as "enjoyable" to all participants, not just one group. I don't necessarily advocate this position, but it is an option.

At the end of the day, it looks like Templar just wants more enjoyment in the PVP experience, and that not only has it been nerfed with the new map, but it is trending toward major restraints, where those who enjoy PVPing are resorting to bullying low level characters just to get some action.

Globally promoting PVP... an idea: what would it be like if, in addition to bounties, *every* PVP kill would result in an XP and/or soul reward? This could be based on a couple thing:

1) Level disparity between the killer and the killed: if a L65 specialized class killed a L10-30 Lost Soul, they are going to get 1 xp and 1 soul for that; but if they kill a L40 specialized class, they'd get 200xp and 50s, e.g.
2) Rewards based on an ELO style ranking, with diminished returns or a cooldown timer before you can gain souls from that same member (say, 1 week). This would prevent exploitation, and promote a diversification of PVP tracking and ganking.
3) "Target of the Day" where a level 65 capped individual is at random targeted for a higher than normal bounty, and if that bounty is claimed that day, great; if not, it randomly is assigned to another level capped HC member the next day.

I am not a PVPer in Herocraft, but I have had my fair share of PVP experiences in other games. I value the PVP experience on HC, and would like to see it revitalized...but in a fair and equitable manner. Raising the cost of rent on personal regions does not satisfy this goal, imho.

We put valuables in chests. Those valuables we either use or sell for souls on the open market. Although raiding and gaining entry to personal regions and towns is one form of PVP, it should require a higher level of organization, time, and skill to pull it off. By something like the aforementioned globally promoted PVP method, we bypass the necessity to mess with the new expansive use of personal regions, and still promote more PVP engagement without messing with what Kainzo has just recently implemented on the server.

Thanks,

-yav

 

[Triptrippen]

It just seems odd to me that for the price of an LWC you can have a chest protected for 65 years. And that it states in the wiki that the point of the rent is to get rid of protection on players who are not playing anymore, and other parts say that 1 month or so is defined as a player who isn't playing anymore.

1month = 65 years? I think most of us will be dead by the time any of these regions become unprotected from rent.

 

[Yavool]

It just seems odd to me that for the price of an LWC you can have a chest protected for 65 years. And that it states in the wiki that the point of the rent is to get rid of protection on players who are not playing anymore, and other parts say that 1 month or so is defined as a player who isn't playing anymore.
1month = 65 years?

As a whitelisted individual, you get one small 11x11x11 space to call your own. You still have to protect it, defend it, and apparently double block its perimeter in order to insure that people wont block glitch exploit..so in effect you get a 9x9x9 space.... Doesn't everyone deserve a small little place to call their own in this expansive HC world?

Furthermore, anyone who stays around HC is 1) going to quickly outgrow such a small personal region; and 2) going to join a town in which they will suddenly go from 729 blocks of protected space to 1.7 million blocks of protected space. Picking on the poor Lost Soul's personal region doesn't make much sense. Let them be, and focus the fight on the core issue, which is the absence of a viable PVP experience.

The alternative to raising the rent of personal regions is to drop the cost of LWCs in order to make them more uniform in cost. But to do so would further empower the trend away from PVP by making more absolutely secure chests present in HC. Either way, the concern about a cheap (small) personal region is a symptom of a much greater issue.

-yav

 

[Jack_Reacher]

FYI: LWC'd chests lose their protection if you don't open them for a month.

 

[Triptrippen]

So actually personal regions are cheaper AND more secure due to being more or less permanent, tho to make them double blocked throws off my math from above. So I'll just say its 95% cheaper instead of the 97.5~% cheaper.

 

[0xNaomi]

Jack's point seems to not be reaching you. Jack, I'll discuss changing your name to fit better later.
Anyway, yes, you can place *a* personal region anywhere, but unless you're t8 or t9, that's ONE.
Individual LWCs can be placed independently from one another in the world.
Also, LWCs are refunded on removal, while any setup fee for a Personal Region is never refunded.

For anything temporary, remote or moving, an LWC is the way to go.

 

[Triptrippen]

The sheep will soon have a pve server right? Let the wolves have fun on the pvp server with less hidey holes via higher rent or some other balance. The way its setup now, you can only raid people who aren't aware of how to use a region.

 

[Jack_Reacher]

Jack, I'll discuss changing your name to fit better later.

wat

 

[0xNaomi]

wat

Jack's point seems to not be reaching you. Jack, I'll discuss changing your name to fit better later.

You don't like the name pun?