Please help me design structures

[Multitallented]

@Balance Team Please comment on posts to change building materials, costs, and items used in different structures/towns. If I don't get feedback soon, then it will slow down Townships 3.0 later when we need to make changes.

There are various sizes of housing players can build:

-Shack > that can be rebuilt as a House
-Villa > duplex that can be rebuilt as an Estate
- Mansion
- Inn

These different sizes will require different items daily to generate money. They will also require different blocks to build them. What food should a villa need daily? How about a mansion? How much should a town cost?

My idea was to require a lot of common blocks like chests, beds, etc. Besides those blocks, houses become hard to pin down more requirements without restricting creativity too much. In the past if I require blocks that builders don't want to use, then they will bury them underground.

This time around I want to require a primary material and a secondary material. These can be any one of several blocks. For example, wood planks is a common primary material and logs are a common secondary material.

I want to pin down all of the possible materials people would want to use for the main part of their buildings. So again I say that if I don't do that soon, then it'll be really time consuming to change it later.

 

[agedbear]

The biggest problem with having <required> materials is that some builds themes may not use any of the materials <required> an example is one that I mentioned in the other convo with you, Flavia, an Italian style town where in some of the buildings don't use any wood at all. Instead they are a combination of sandstone, stone brick and colored clay. Other buildings use colored clay, stone brick and wood slabs but no planks. Still yet, our Dwarven under city uses smoothstone, stone brick, light applications of cobble and sandstone, but has again, no wood.

Rather than <required> having a list of (allowed) materials that must be in certain quantities would be a better option that still fulfills your intent but allows for creative freedom.

 

[Multitallented]

The biggest problem with having <required> materials is that some builds themes may not use any of the materials <required> an example is one that I mentioned in the other convo with you, Flavia, an Italian style town where in some of the buildings don't use any wood at all. Instead they are a combination of sandstone, stone brick and colored clay. Other buildings use colored clay, stone brick and wood slabs but no planks. Still yet, our Dwarven under city uses smoothstone, stone brick, light applications of cobble and sandstone, but has again, no wood.

Rather than <required> having a list of (allowed) materials that must be in certain quantities would be a better option that still fulfills your intent but allows for creative freedom.

I think you misunderstand. Flavia and your under city would both work in my proposed system.

Flavia primary material: Sandstone
Flavia secondary material: Stone Brick

Under City primary material: Stone
Under City secondary material: Stone Brick

What I am asking is if I should include any other materials that you can use for a primary or secondary material? Is there a better way of handling these requirements? Should I have a third material and if so then what should it allow?

For example a house currently allows 48 of the following primary materials: wood or log or cobblestone or stone or sand or clay or wool or glass
The 16 secondary materials it allows are: log or stone brick or sandstone or brick

Another example is a mansion which currently allows 128 primary materials: wood or log or stone or sand or clay or wool or glass or netherrack or marble
It's secondary material is 48: log or stone brick or sandstone or brick or nether brick

 

[Kainzo]

Primary and secondary materials should be configurable, right @Multitallented ?

 

[Multitallented]

Primary and secondary materials should be configurable, right @Multitallented ?

Yes of course. I can configure the shit out of this stuff

 

[agedbear]

I think you misunderstand. Flavia and your under city would both work in my proposed system.

Flavia primary material: Sandstone
Flavia secondary material: Stone Brick

Under City primary material: Stone
Under City secondary material: Stone Brick

What I am asking is if I should include any other materials that you can use for a primary or secondary material? Is there a better way of handling these requirements? Should I have a third material and if so then what should it allow?

For example a house currently allows 48 of the following primary materials: wood or log or cobblestone or stone or sand or clay or wool or glass
The 16 secondary materials it allows are: log or stone brick or sandstone or brick

Another example is a mansion which currently allows 128 primary materials: wood or log or stone or sand or clay or wool or glass or netherrack or marble
It's secondary material is 48: log or stone brick or sandstone or brick or nether brick

I'm still not quite sure we are on the same page here though and perhaps it was cause i was replying from my phone while at work. I only used my town as an example due to the different building styles used within the town.

Yes my town uses Sandstone as a primary and colored clay as a secondary but another town may go with a totally different theme and have their primary being Cobblestone and secondary using Spruce wood planks. What i meant was that having a required material for a structure that spans all towns will not work due to different towns using different themes. One town may go Italian style, another Medieval European, and yet another Middle Eastern Desert.

Now if you are talking about having a list of allowable materials that are a primary and another list of allowable that are secondary then I might finally be on the same page with you. However I still think that rather than require that certain materials be used we are better off requiring minimum dimensions and quantities of blocks.

Example

Shack: no smaller than 9x7x6
must have:
1 crafting table
1 furnace
80 of (allowed materials list solid blocks)
20 of (allowed materials list non-solid)

solid materials list:
Wood Logs (all)
Wood Planks
Colored Clay
Cobble Stone
Sandstone
Hay Bale

non-solid materials list:
Wood Steps (all)
Wood Slabs (all)
Wood Fence (all)
Cobble Slabs
Cobble Steps
Sandstone Slabs
Sandstone Steps

This would allow for creative freedom while still having a minimum requirement that other build themes aren't funneled into. For a larger structure it could be something like the following

House: no smaller than 20x15x12
must have:
3 crafting table
3 furnace
2 Beds
1 Door (iron or wood)
240 of (allowed materials list solid blocks)
120 of (allowed materials list non-solid)

solid materials list:
Wood Logs (all)
Wood Planks
Colored Clay
Cobble Stone
Smooth stone
Stone Brick
Mossy Cobble
Mossy Stone Brick
Cracked Brick
Chiseled Stone Brick
Sandstone
Chiseled Sandstone
Smooth Sandstone
Netherbrick
Quartz Block
Chiseled Quartz
Pillar of Quartz
Wool
Colored Glass
Leaves (any)
Block of <ore name>

non-solid materials list:
Wood Steps (all)
Wood Slabs (all)
Wood Fence (all)
Cobble Slabs
Cobble Steps
Cobble Fence
Mossy Cobble Fence
Stone Brick Slabs
Stone Brick Steps
Smooth stone Slabs
Iron Bars
Color Glass Panes
Netherbrick fence
Netherbrick Slabs
Netherbrick Steps
Sandstone Slabs
Sandstone Steps
Quartz Slab
Quartz Steps

then as the buildings grow you only need to specify decorative blocks to define the purpose of the structure. IE: Homes (as they get fancier) have paintings, potted plants, gardens, etc. Enchanters homes might require bookshelves, enchanting table, skulls, blocks of diamond or lapis. Smithy's would require logs or coal blocks (fuel source) blocks of iron/gold (raw materials), lava, water, anvils. Farms could be required Hay Bales, plowed soil, gravel, planted foods. Hospitals would require more beds, cauldrons. Alchemist cauldrons, potted mushrooms, brewing stands, etc

tl;dr - don't require building materials but decorative materials and a minimum size to define what each building is.

 

[Multitallented]

I'm still not quite sure we are on the same page here though and perhaps it was cause i was replying from my phone while at work. I only used my town as an example due to the different building styles used within the town.

Yes my town uses Sandstone as a primary and colored clay as a secondary but another town may go with a totally different theme and have their primary being Cobblestone and secondary using Spruce wood planks. What i meant was that having a required material for a structure that spans all towns will not work due to different towns using different themes. One town may go Italian style, another Medieval European, and yet another Middle Eastern Desert.

Now if you are talking about having a list of allowable materials that are a primary and another list of allowable that are secondary then I might finally be on the same page with you. However I still think that rather than require that certain materials be used we are better off requiring minimum dimensions and quantities of blocks.

Example

Shack: no smaller than 9x7x6
must have:
1 crafting table
1 furnace
80 of (allowed materials list solid blocks)
20 of (allowed materials list non-solid)

solid materials list:
Wood Logs (all)
Wood Planks
Colored Clay
Cobble Stone
Sandstone
Hay Bale

non-solid materials list:
Wood Steps (all)
Wood Slabs (all)
Wood Fence (all)
Cobble Slabs
Cobble Steps
Sandstone Slabs
Sandstone Steps

This would allow for creative freedom while still having a minimum requirement that other build themes aren't funneled into. For a larger structure it could be something like the following

House: no smaller than 20x15x12
must have:
3 crafting table
3 furnace
2 Beds
1 Door (iron or wood)
240 of (allowed materials list solid blocks)
120 of (allowed materials list non-solid)

solid materials list:
Wood Logs (all)
Wood Planks
Colored Clay
Cobble Stone
Smooth stone
Stone Brick
Mossy Cobble
Mossy Stone Brick
Cracked Brick
Chiseled Stone Brick
Sandstone
Chiseled Sandstone
Smooth Sandstone
Netherbrick
Quartz Block
Chiseled Quartz
Pillar of Quartz
Wool
Colored Glass
Leaves (any)
Block of <ore name>

non-solid materials list:
Wood Steps (all)
Wood Slabs (all)
Wood Fence (all)
Cobble Slabs
Cobble Steps
Cobble Fence
Mossy Cobble Fence
Stone Brick Slabs
Stone Brick Steps
Smooth stone Slabs
Iron Bars
Color Glass Panes
Netherbrick fence
Netherbrick Slabs
Netherbrick Steps
Sandstone Slabs
Sandstone Steps
Quartz Slab
Quartz Steps

then as the buildings grow you only need to specify decorative blocks to define the purpose of the structure. IE: Homes (as they get fancier) have paintings, potted plants, gardens, etc. Enchanters homes might require bookshelves, enchanting table, skulls, blocks of diamond or lapis. Smithy's would require logs or coal blocks (fuel source) blocks of iron/gold (raw materials), lava, water, anvils. Farms could be required Hay Bales, plowed soil, gravel, planted foods. Hospitals would require more beds, cauldrons. Alchemist cauldrons, potted mushrooms, brewing stands, etc

tl;dr - don't require building materials but decorative materials and a minimum size to define what each building is.

Well, that's essentially what I'm doing. You can have your Italian style town, and someone else can do their medieval style town. You could have an italian style house next to a medieval one if you really wanted to. We may have to get on TS and chat for a bit sometime. Thanks for the list of materials. That is very helpful!

 

[agedbear]

tonight is no good for me as mentioned before, but it would be great to jump on TS and discuss this more. I should be free tomorrow night after 8pm EST

 

[Multitallented]

Cool, I'll keep an eye out for you on TS then

 

[agedbear]

@Multitallented after talking last night and seeing the plugin in action, is it possible to define the region via a tool like we currently do the residences rather than by the chest in the center of the region? The chest in the middle o f a 5x5x5 or 7x7x7 region kinda cuts out a lot of usable space for block placement versus building the structure then selecting boundaries using a tool then scanning within that boundary for the required blocks. I don't know if this will be easier or harder to code since it is already in use with the residence plugin.

What're your thoughts @kotagrizzly , @pheonixfrenzy ?

 

[Multitallented]

This is not something I plan on changing any time soon. There are no 5x5x5 houses anyway. If you don't put the center chest in the floor, then you can get 3 spaces of head room and a roof (and a basement) in a 7x7x7 shack (which is the cheapest house there is).

The reason it was done this way is to avoid server lag. If done correctly, it could probably work without lag if you defined your own region. It's a very low priority for me to code it. There are just way too many other cool things I want to do.

 

[agedbear]

Haha I definitely understand that one. The bread shop is a 5x5 though, but think that can be placed inside a larger structure though. Like a kitchen area of a bakery type deal.

On a separate note @Multitallented, I've got time to write up those posts as you requested, but I don't recall what buildings you need numbers for. Do you have a list posted somewhere here I can work off of? I've got plenty of time today to work on that it seems.

 

[Multitallented]

I need numbers for all of the regions in this forum. Thanks for the help