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Piggify.

xexorian

Admin ZeeZo
Retired Staff
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Location
USA
A dragoon's worst nightmare.

/discuss

Apparently: when I accidentally hit Barnubus with Piggify in mid-air (during a jump) she proceeded to fly directly into the void and glitch/speed hacked straight down along the Y axis at godlike speed through solid rock, dirt, lava, caves, then immediately into the void for a true death.

Also: Beguiler's need more offense, and/or Utility.

Not sure how/if this is something that is possible, but the ability to remove "Begins casting chain lightning" for example, would be really really neat to have. The ability to stop players from casting a spell by purging or dispelling them right before it finishes casting.

Also, I think fireball should cost much much less mana, or the passive mana regen should be 1.5 points higher, or, beguiler's should gain % based mana, and gain mana per level upto 55. :)
 

Sleaker

Retired Staff
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Portland, Oregon
A dragoon's worst nightmare.

/discuss
Not sure how/if this is something that is possible, but the ability to remove "Begins casting chain lightning" for example, would be really really neat to have. The ability to stop players from casting a spell by purging or dispelling them right before it finishes casting.

there are already silences in the game that can do this. it just depends on what class gains these abilities.
 

xexorian

Admin ZeeZo
Retired Staff
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Location
USA
orly?

Okay.

Also, I suggest probably doing a 8 mana cost, quicker cast than fireball, but like 12 damage spell.

Something like a "Mystic Barrage". Maybe have the projectile like a "Magic Arrow". Arrow speed, but lower dmg. low cooldown too.

tldr; beguiler's need more speed, but it'd be cool to have a more spammable spell to even out our dps. (and thus lower mana/dmg but maybe higher damagepermana than fireball. so increased dps)
 

xexorian

Admin ZeeZo
Retired Staff
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Location
USA
WOW. I was really vague in that post above.

What I meant was that currently Beguilers have:

1 Fireball - I would say "Primary Attack" but I disagree with that statement. This should be our "First Attack". This spell honestly takes too much mana and doesn't do steady damage.
1 Scan - informational / flavor skill for "casters"
1 Telekinesis - pretty useless for pvp / flavor skill for "casters"

5 RegenMana (Passive) - adds a single point to mana regen per mana regen tick. (6 per 5 seconds, instead of 5 per 5) Very Useful but might need a tad buff.

10 Piggify - Beguiler's only real form of crowd control, debatable if it's better than other rooting effects. Some issues at this moment. Such as: people running at you while on a pig (SOMEHOW/see video proof), and falling into the void.

15 Dispel - According to the tooltip, this removes 3 "magical effects" from your target. (I think it should stop casts that require you to channel it for a second or two. Including Recall.)

15 SummonFood - pretty useless overall, 100+ second cooldown, and only summons ONE bread. / flavor skill. Should spawn you like 16 bread on a 5 minute cooldown imo.
(25 mana cost)

20 Reflect - untested, but this was riddled with issues last heroes test I tried it on. In my opinion this should reflect 50% of ALL DAMAGE. I think it needs a higher duration akin to Flame Shields. Like a "thorns aura" that reflects maybe damage done to your entire party back to their enemies? This would be awesome against a Geomancer that pulses 5 members and gets hit for half of that dmg x 5. I recommend 20 second uptime, 25 second downtime, M:40 to M:50 -- This would easily make Beguiler a heavy support class / able to turn the tide of battle. Maybe "PartyReflect"?

25 Purge - targetable "dispel" but doesn't say how many or whatnot. you purge ''EFFECTS?" from "ANYONE?" near your "TARGET?". I think "EFFECTS" should mean either 1 effect from every target, or all effects from all targets. "Anyone" should be only people not in your party, and the "target" needs to either be a person/npc, OR just the farthest away you can mouse-over a block and click your bind. Though I see reach hacks being abusable by this. IE: sniping from 25 blocks away to dispel a crowd.

35 SafeFallOther - mainly a flare skill, little to no use in PVP situations

45 Might - finally a useful skill that's really straight forward with you. Increases your party's damage WITH WEAPONS by 25%. (I think it would be cool if we knew for how long, and what mana this costed.) It'd be need if it also worked with ALL skills, AND weapons. IE: Fireball does 24 damage instead of 20. (@lvl 19 beguiler)

50 Teleport - teleports you "somewhere close by" to a party member. untested by myself but has definate situational use for PVP HOWEVER, as with most of these, no cooldown or mana cost listed. So, this is debatable because we may or may not get to use it as a quick escape. I hate the idea of that though and think this makes it a "sissy" skill and degrades Beguiler. It should definately have a cooldown, slow you, and be channeled if it's not already.

55 SonicBoom - The real deal. ZERO damage, + 10000s "silence everyone within a 10 block radius." M:10

Hopefully this means that you silence ALL skills from being used. This can be used with teleport to quickly goto and end combat during a raid by stopping all skill usages. However there's a few problems with that idea;

1) it should only affect people NOT in your party. which I think it does.
2) I think it's only 10.000 seconds, or 10,000 ticks. Which 10,000 / 20 ticks per second = 500 seconds or 8.33 minutes. That's pretty cool. an 8 minute silence is fucking bad as hell.

Also, it would be fucking awesome to have "CD: 9s M: 100" on everything. So we know how long of a cooldown and how much mana things use at the end of each tooltip.

I think Beguilers also should have a much weaker spammable attack at 30 to fill the gap. Fireball has a few inherit problems such as

1) the fire dot effect turns people and mobs invulnerable at times, totally negating your mana, and damage.
2) it's a slower moving projectile, kinda hard to aim, and easy to dodge at range.
3) it's fire based, and I think there's too much fire protection to fight off the entire "caster" path.

We should get a spell that works like a magic or mystic ball/arrow that deals like 12 damage, costs 8 mana and have maybe a 0.5 second cooldown so you can burn through mana for damage, without worry of a "cooldown" or fire "dots" ruining your damage because they went invulnerable. Maybe adjust this value to match the same duration as the internal invulnerability, so that you can land it each time, unless someone else is also attacking your mob.

100 mana / 8 = 12.5 casts, over (say 0.5 x 12 = 6 seconds) which means you'll get 13 casts before you "OOM" so 13 x 12 = 156 damage. HOWEVER, this is easily negated and a small fraction of this number against armored targets. My 20+ damage fireballs barely do 4-8 damage on warriors, this means a 12 damage spam skill (just like most melee have 10-14 damage that is spammable) would only do about 1/4th that. so 156/4 is still only 39 HP in damage against a heavily armored target. This is kind of bad, actually. Considering they're just going to smack us for a full 10 HP every swing. The knockback from this spam skill would also make for a great defense tool to keep melee at mid range and off of you. It'd definately fill a gap.

It'd be neat if our passive regen went upto 8 from 6 as well, so that every 5 seconds we could use our basic attack. These changes I've laid out seems very needed for a class that has decent utility, but I think is lacking a few needed tweaks, if all these changes were made, this class would be on par with the current and favorite pvp classes at this time.

Lastly, might it be cool to make beguilers the only class that has 200 mana at 55 ofc.
 

xexorian

Admin ZeeZo
Retired Staff
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Location
USA
for 100% mana, and the fact we only regen 16 mana, which isn't enough to cast a single offensive spell, only defensive, during that 10 second window. I think it should be longer tbh. :p
 

xpeterc1

Legacy Supporter 7
Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Location
New York
The 10s should probably be less - we'll continue to adjust.
I concur that it's long for 10 seconds but for a level 55 skill, I suggest that it should still be sufficient. Maybe like 6-8 seconds range.

From my standpoint, the idea of piggify is to neutral one person where SonicBoom is the "Mob Control" skill that beguilers are said to be. I believe it's fair that Sonicboom should be slightly longer than Piggify as the person is not rooted instead is free to retreat or melee and that it's a 55 skill.
 

xexorian

Admin ZeeZo
Retired Staff
Joined
Apr 7, 2011
Location
USA
I concur that it's long for 10 seconds but for a level 55 skill, I suggest that it should still be sufficient. Maybe like 6-8 seconds range.

From my stand point, the idea of piggify is to neutral one person where SonicBoom is the "Mob Control" skill that beguilers are said to be. I believe it's fair that Sonicboom should be slightly longer than Piggify as the person is not rooted instead is free to retreat or melee and that it's a 55 skill.

I agree completely. I think the skill needs a bit tweaking. Maybe 10 block range, low duration, but lower mana cost.

100% mana is ridiculous for an 8 second silence. It's ONLY viable in a party. 1v1 the skill is basically useless, as you won't regen enough mana to fight anyone that's competent off of you.
 
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