No Reagents huh?

[porcelainpluto]

I think this is a major blow to the economy.

Since armor has been changed to be so much more durable, the demand for it is low.
Since everyone can grow carrots/taters/whatever the demand for food is low.
Since mining diamonds/emeralds/gold is easy & basically required for leveling any profession the demand for them is low.

Leather sells, but that's because it's used for a lot of essential things, the armor made with it wears down the fastest, and unlike everything else is reasonably hard to get a large supply of it.

All the reagents have basically been the stock that has moved somewhat reliably, but with the announcement that combat reagents are being removed I'm afraid the Trade District should be renamed the "The Flying Island of Leather and Slime Ball Shops."

If that's the direction things are going, you may as well delete TD all together.

I think reagents should stay because we already have so few goods that are worth trading.

 

[LordZelkova]

God picks. Codexs. Relics (4&5 mainly really). Building blocks (People will buy them)
Enchanted Armor (All kinds). Chainmail. Redstone (All hail redstone shops).

Overall I like the IDEA of reagents, but dislike the current use and mass amount of them (Seriously, count how much gunpowder classes need).
I say lower the reagent cost, lower the damage, mana, stam usage whatever needs to be done to be balanced but just lower them.

Another solution (Although a bad one): Make more classes need reagents (I really don't like this one but it might even the field).

 

[Ice_Burner]

I personally think a very dramatic way of fixing the re-agent problem such as removing them all together is not the way to go.

In my opinion costs should be lowered. If reagent gathering is still too hard after that, and if lowering it doesn't affect the economy too much, I say remove them then and there.

 

[Jonsoon]

More items, more uses.

There are many plans for the economy and the direction to take it, but these things take time. If you have ideas, just post and CONSTRUCTIVELY discuss them. We're always watching, and I read everything regarding the economy and professions.

 

[Minecraftventura]

Another option would be to make reagents purchasable from the server, That way they are still needed but fairly easy to get.

 

[Watermelon_01]

Reagents in my opinion are necessary for the balance of skills, not only the power of damaging skills but the diversity of them. I do think that most skills should take less, if not no reagents at all such as wiz's blink, bolt, ninja's blitz, etc. (just to name a few). These are skills that make their classes unique and useable in even pvp matches, especially for the more weak (armor wise) classes, and those that use few real burst damage skill(s). There are some skills like ninja's shurikens and wiz's blink that should keep reagents but maybe with a decreased amount or with an increase in their' "useful-ness"/power.
Looking at trading, I feel like precedents need to be set for items, to make prices and sale competition relevant to the gameplay. I feel that the trade price for gold is part of the reason that things like diamonds and emeralds have been losing their value. The cheap cost is spreading to other items of similar use/how to find it and is also making people look to gold as the money maker and the others as more useless, as though large amounts of them weren't already making them useless before. As Minecraftventura has mentioned /\ a market with increased prices (standardized to be very expensive but maybe not exactly the cost that normal people would sell them for- to give players that sell items something to look to as being of greater profit as compared to other items sold by the server).

 

[Kodyyodk]

More items, more uses.

There are many plans for the economy and the direction to take it, but these things take time. If you have ideas, just post and CONSTRUCTIVELY discuss them. We're always watching, and I read everything regarding the economy and professions.

What do you mean "more items, more uses."? By removing the reagent cost of spells its making the items we have less useful. So it would more accurately be same items, less uses. And everyone understands that these changes take time, but if the majority of the market is crashed then the changes in the future wont matter so much, due to the economy already being crashed. By removing reagents it turns items that would normally be traded for into items that don't have a real use. Yeah you can use string to make wool, but string mostly sells to people using grappling hook/web, and with those reagents gone, the worth of string (in real terms) drops to almost nothing. I understand that people want less reagents, but porcelainpluto brings up a good point by saying it'll crash the economy because it basically will. As someone who does a lot of trading I can say that reagents/leather/redstone are 90% of what sells. By removing reagents you'll be able to count the number of items in circulation on one hand.

What is the direction that you want to take the economy in?
What are some of the changes that are being made in the future?

 

[Jonsoon]

What do you mean "more items, more uses."? By removing the reagent cost of spells its making the items we have less useful. So it would more accurately be same items, less uses. And everyone understands that these changes take time, but if the majority of the market is crashed then the changes in the future wont matter so much, due to the economy already being crashed. By removing reagents it turns items that would normally be traded for into items that don't have a real use. Yeah you can use string to make wool, but string mostly sells to people using grappling hook/web, and with those reagents gone, the worth of string (in real terms) drops to almost nothing. I understand that people want less reagents, but porcelainpluto brings up a good point by saying it'll crash the economy because it basically will. As someone who does a lot of trading I can say that reagents/leather/redstone are 90% of what sells. By removing reagents you'll be able to count the number of items in circulation on one hand.

What is the direction that you want to take the economy in?
What are some of the changes that are being made in the future?

Just making a general statement that we have tons of items and they have no worth, or use.

 

[porcelainpluto]

Just making a general statement that we have tons of items and they have no worth, or use.

Right, and with this next patch, even more items will be worthless. Which kills trading. Hence my initial post.

 

[Watermelon_01]

Right, and with this next patch, even more items will be worthless. Which kills trading. Hence my initial post.

Lets be honest, what items in vanilla minecraft are "useless"? Rotten flesh, string, spider's eyes, etc. These are all items that have been given uses by reagent purposes, what is the loss of these if we have all inevitably dealt with them being useless in the first place?
I'd also like to point out my previous post that still includes reagents (though at a lower rate of useage per spell) and gives a suggestion for the market/economy (also minecraftventura's post).

 

[Kodyyodk]

Lets be honest, what items in vanilla minecraft are "useless"? Rotten flesh, string, spider's eyes, etc. These are all items that have been given uses by reagent purposes, what is the loss of these if we have all inevitably dealt with them being useless in the first place?
I'd also like to point out my previous post that still includes reagents (though at a lower rate of useage per spell) and gives a suggestion for the market/economy (also minecraftventura's post).

You realize that he was responding to Jonsoons post right? What hes saying is what you are saying. Jonsoon was saying that it doesnt matter if more items lose their use, since we already have so many useless items.

 

[Jonsoon]

You realize that he was responding to Jonsoons post right? What hes saying is what you are saying. Jonsoon was saying that it doesnt matter if more items lose their use, since we already have so many useless items.

Ehhh... No... That's not what I was trying to say. I was basically trying to say we need more uses for these useless items. Came out wrong.

Don't get me wrong, there should ALWAYS be trash items, but there are currently too many items that players just simply throw away because they take up inventory space and do not contribute towards the game.

 

[Kodyyodk]

Ehhh... No... That's not what I was trying to say. I was basically trying to say we need more uses for these useless items. Came out wrong.

Don't get me wrong, there should ALWAYS be trash items, but there are currently too many items that players just simply throw away because they take up inventory space and do not contribute towards the game.

Oh well that's great to hear! My question now though, is how exactly is that going to happen? Especially with the removal of all reagents outside of slime? Doesn't that just increase the amount of useless items instead of decreasing it?

 

[Jonsoon]

I want to put them into professions through custom crafting. Remember that thing, custom crafting, that was talked about forever ago and began with the item drops? well.. I am trying to take over that and am presenting things to the Admins. I am more or less vague on it right now due to the fact all I have are ideas, and they need to be fully planned out and brought to Kainzo.

 

[Watermelon_01]

Could take time to make the items/code them in and get them to work but it will help out in the long run for these items

 

[Theshadown]

Reagents should be eliminated all together, I agree with that announcement and the main reasons are:

- Mixing up economy with combat directly is a really BAD idea. Professions should use reagents, not combat classes. Forcing some classes to expend money or time gathering reagents while other don't not only won't save the economy, but is also the main reason some classes suck (as the ninja). Combat and Economy interact only through the gear, enchants, indirect things.

- It makes classes hellish to balance.... because u need to take into account the reagent availability, market price, drops rates and so on. Even if u manage to balance it, a sudden change in market price would complete ruin the balance.. And having some classes require a lot of reagents (ninja, wiz) while others just use their mana (pala) is extremely unfair, anti-lore, and what not.

- It can't really be balanced... balancing with reagents means I can spam a powerful skill as much as I want if I have the money, or can't use it all if I'm poor or a new player.


Suggestions:
- MOST IMPORTANT ONE: server supported economy... (wild capitalism just doesn't work...). I mean, make the server npcs buy certain resources for souls or items. This is really important and most servers have it. This way the devs can influence and support the economy, specially when the player base isn't huge. Reducing the souls directly got from minning/farming and instead buying the resources mined from the players would make resources more valuable to gather and trade. (not all, just 2 or 3 is enough)

- Craftable relicts. Instead of trying to get a relic drop at retard low rates on increasingly rare blocks (diamonds), make the relics crafteable/tradeable requiring a load of rare resources. (I think this is a great idea to move the economy).

- Make it so certain resources can only be produced on certain parts of the map. Example: carrots in plains, sugarcane in ocean, woods (other than oak) in forest, and so on. This means no single town or base can farm all resources at once.

- Introduce random loot for each profession and reduce the normal drop chance of that item for other. Example: pyro's have a 2% chance of getting a blaze rod when killing a zombie, Server wide decrease in the drop rate of blaze rods from blazes.


Edit: IMPORTANT
- Add npcs that buy not resources but final items made by professions and increase the exp gain from those crafts to make them the main leveling activity. This way instead of minning as a slave and just stack the resources (we have a double chest full of rs blocks stacks..) you mine to get resources for little exp, use them to craft and lvl to then sell the final items to the server for a little cash. This means lazy players would be willing to buy resources rather than mine them.
Now that I though about it, one of the main reasons resources are worth shit is because we are all forced to mine for weeks to master the professions.

 

[LordZelkova]

@Jonsoon Any thoughts on giving the DHX a set amount of money again? It wouldn't fix things because of the infinite townships money but I'm sure it could be used to help stabilize the Economy.

Also as Theshadown said, have reagents/items be bought by the server for a set price and then the players can choose what to charge around that.

 

[MunchlaxHero]

The Idea was to have regents only for utility skills so I would not be surprised if more profession skills got regents, so start selling that sulfur for excavate. (only joking tho idk what skill would get what).

 

[Watermelon_01]

When can we expect this to happen? I see that it has been updated on the wikis though I haven't checked in-game as forums are first in my morning routine.

 

[LordZelkova]

When can we expect this to happen? I see that it has been updated on the wikis though I haven't checked in-game as forums are first in my morning routine.

Most reagents were removed in that last patch by Nuclear. Utility and Prof skills should still have them.