Suggestion new town pvp

[mikehk]

In this suggestion, I am going to say that I think that new towns (as in just paid for, regions just got thrown up) should become a pvp-free zone for 3 days after creation. Some of you diehard pvp fans will think this is a ridiculous suggestion, but here's some pros and cons:

PROS:

• less bad looking towns, the pvp free period is to allow towns to get started and not get raided during their tender first hours, allowing them to build the precious walls and other defenses
• promotes building more, which we see not as much as we should at the moment.
• would increase quality of pvp after pvp removal, as the town's members have had time to get set up in the new town, rather than upper levels ganking the builders and not allowing them to get work done, thus reducing time for leveling as well. would you rather fight a 5+ mastered vs 1-3 low levels, or 5+ mastered vs 5+ at least specced. In my opinion, fair pvp is the best pvp and most fun

CONS:

• diehard low level gankers will rage
• somehow exploitable (I have no idea how, but we have idiotic "clever" players)
• please list more, i cant think of any more atm
• would stab town raiding a bit, due to no way into a town after fully built.

Thoughts?

 

[Ultanian]

Two weeks seems a little long IMO
Good suggestion though!

 

[WitchOnaRampage]

I think this is a fantastic suggestion, for all the reasons mikehk has proposed, plus: It will help to build the server community.

New players (and existing players) with the enthusiasm to set up a new town will get the opportunity to give their town substance and form, to bring it into existence.

During this time, the town members can gain the experience of working together and connecting as a team.

With that in place, they will be much better placed to become a force on the server moving forward, providing more entertainment for everyone!

 

[Jonsoon]

I disagree because Haven is PvP oriented.

At the start of the map, Volantis got raided literally non stop while we were the only official town. We had bounty after bounty placed on us. Everyone was bent on seeing us fail. I still got the town built, we still prevailed.

It's part of the game in my opinion.



Now... If you ask me about a 25x25x25 no pvp region at the town center like in Zeal... Well, that is a different story.

 

[mikehk]

snip.

yes, you did. but look how long it took to make it look good. i can remember when you were just a box, easily walked into and attacked. think of how fast you would have gotten your town built if you were not constantly raided. your entire town would have been able to advance faster and get into the more fun pvp aspects of the game faster rather than staying couped up underground just mining out an undercity. I agree that town raiding should be promoted, but you have to look at it from a more newer player's point of view rather than your own city owner view. heres what happens alot of the time.

a few people make a new town, coords are announced to server
large, settled town sees coords, and attacks it, knowing there's good loot to be found in a newly formed town.
all good loot is taken from new town, and town is left without resources and wasted time.
town goes and collects more resources, while the town still looks like shit
new town now has wasted about a week gaining their old resources and time back due to the early raid.
new town attempts to build again, and is ganked in doing so, getting very little done, and losing resources again.
town still looks bad after 3 weeks. may have inactives due to now boring game of attempting to gather materials that will quickly be raided away.

see where it goes? raiding a newly formed town is bad for the community, and should have a safety period to get on their feet.

 

[Jonsoon]

yes, you did. but look how long it took to make it look good. i can remember when you were just a box, easily walked into and attacked. think of how fast you would have gotten your town built if you were not constantly raided. your entire town would have been able to advance faster and get into the more fun pvp aspects of the game faster rather than staying couped up underground just mining out an undercity. I agree that town raiding should be promoted, but you have to look at it from a more newer player's point of view rather than your own city owner view. heres what happens alot of the time.

a few people make a new town, coords are announced to server
large, settled town sees coords, and attacks it, knowing there's good loot to be found in a newly formed town.
all good loot is taken from new town, and town is left without resources and wasted time.
town goes and collects more resources, while the town still looks like shit
new town now has wasted about a week gaining their old resources and time back due to the early raid.
new town attempts to build again, and is ganked in doing so, getting very little done, and losing resources again.
town still looks bad after 3 weeks. may have inactives due to now boring game of attempting to gather materials that will quickly be raided away.

see where it goes? raiding a newly formed town is bad for the community, and should have a safety period to get on their feet.

Advance faster? We were the first Hamlet, Town, and City, we are still they ONLY City. We have advanced just fine, thank you. Volantis does not promote PvP, yet we are still a great force. We came about this at our own time.

Volantis has lost dozens of chests full of materials weather through raiding or being killed while building.

As for a new player, they should not be creating a town off the get go. They should be directed to join a town to understand the server more. Understand risks and costs associated with Herocraft.

 

[0xNaomi]

I'm going to have to disagree here. If this was Bastion, I'd be all for it, but this is Haven.
Now, there's Shrine for having safety and Haven is PvP from the get go.

 

[pure_autism]

I disagree because Haven is PvP oriented.

At the start of the map, Volantis got raided literally non stop while we were the only official town. We had bounty after bounty placed on us. Everyone was bent on seeing us fail. I still got the town built, we still prevailed.

It's part of the game in my opinion.



Now... If you ask me about a 25x25x25 no pvp region at the town center like in Zeal... Well, that is a different story.

Hyperion is still a star-shaped box thing.

 

[Eldrylars]

Hyperion is still a star-shaped box thing.

Yeah, but that's not because of PVP raids. Hyperion has not been worked on much because most of her players are pvpers and not builders, and those that are builders have been busy for months and months with life.
Has nothing to do with being raided.

 

[RagingDragon5]

This is all in my opinion, others may disagree. The reason there are ugly towns isn't because they are being raided. It's becasue either the people building it can't build well or doesn't care how it looks. Drakenvale, Volantis, (and the town with the giant hand holding a huge sphere),and a few others. Are all nice towns, but they have been raided themselves. The builders took dedication working on their towns. The arguement ,"But you could of built it a lot faster if there wasn't pvp on the regions" doesn't really work. The reason is because nobody is going to spend their entire time on Herocraft building their town. They are going to mine, pvp, and goof around. It's all about dedication to the building. Putting this in won't make a significant difference because it's the players fault.

Also if this was implemented and someone gets inside the town's UC or whatever, the citizens won't be able to stop them because there is no pvp.

 

[DJAlphaWolf]

I'm gonna have to agree with the notion that new players should not just go into making new towns. Better to actually make some friends and know what you're doing before you go off and make a town.

As much as I'm an advocate against high levels ganking of lost souls, I don't think I can really support this idea. When you decided you would join Haven, you willingly accepted that you are aware of all the pvp/raiding risks. It's written on signs in the tutorial and in hub. You either joined Haven because there are more people there or because of the greater rewards. If you don't want pvp, join Shrine. The problem merely lies in the amount of shrine players vs haven players, which might be the reason people are more attracted to it. Towns shouldn't be an exception to this rule. You should be able to protect yourself or hide your valuables and know the risks of tracking and camping before you just go and make a town.

Even if it this did happen, I would not be ok with the current time requirements in place. I feel 1-2 days more suitable tbh, much like how other servers give new players a short "safe period" where they can't be attacked. 1-2 days is long enough time to hide your valuables well and get at least a wall or 2 up.

Also, wouldn't this kinda rid the concept of raiding in some of these new towns? (correct me if I'm wrong) Since the only ways in to a regioned town is region abuse, glitch abuse, finding weak spots in the structure or magically finding a hole/large opening into the city (where u can then walk/jump/blink/enderpearl/gtp in). Taking a week into account, if a town isn't ganked for a week, aren't lazy or incredibly stupid, then theoretically they can not only create magnificent towns (or at least some protective walls) but effectively prevent any future raiding from the 2 week period. People are gonna rage about that, especially those who literally spend all their time pvping/raiding.

Add that to the cons list along with the possible camping during the no-pvp time period that Raging brought up.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.

P.S: I'm also a bit curious as to how many towns actually complain about this kind of thing when they open up. Just statistically. Is it a major problem or is this just a suggestion to prevent it from becoming a major problem?

 

[LordZelkova]

My town has been in the "building" processes for a while now. And I can 100% say that raiders have nothing to do with it not being complete. And before someone notices that my town happens to be flying in the sky, I live and spend almost all my time in an undercity, where I have been raided and killed. But those raids didn't stop me before. Inactivity within our group stopped it. This 2 week invul period, while nice, is overkill. 1 - 2 Days MAYBE. As DJ said, that is plenty time to hide and build walls if needed. New players shouldn't be making a town and Vets should know how to defend themselves and when to work on building.

 

[MichaelRL]

how about sent when i owned it xD

 

[mikehk]

ya, i agree that 2 weeks is a touch overkill, but im goin for a building stage, like so we dont have bad looking town shells dotting the map. will edit to 3 days.

new players shouldnt be making new towns, correct, and vets know how to stay semi-safe, correct. but this is to promote building better towns faster and allowing people to ease into the game better, such as if a map wipe occurred, the first town like volantis was constantly raided, and although they did persevere to make a cool looking box with terraformed terrain around it, it took them a long while.

DJ, its not a major problem atm, rather a minor problem, but it would help newer towns get started.

 

[mikehk]

Also, wouldn't this kinda rid the concept of raiding in some of these new towns? (correct me if I'm wrong) Since the only ways in to a regioned town is region abuse, glitch abuse, finding weak spots in the structure or magically finding a hole/large opening into the city (where u can then walk/jump/blink/enderpearl/gtp in). Taking a week into account, if a town isn't ganked for a week, aren't lazy or incredibly stupid, then theoretically they can not only create magnificent towns (or at least some protective walls) but effectively prevent any future raiding from the 2 week period.

off topic, but related to this quote: this is why we need TnT 2 min town seiges. TnT can blow up regioned blocks, but it regenerates them 2 minutes later.

 

[HeroGuy426]

First I liked, then I read the comments and changed my mind. The TnT blowing up regioned blocks, but they regen after 2 minutes tho is pretty cool.

 

[Carbash]

Here is my suggestion to make this more reasonable. Have a buff that can be bought with a set amount of resources that allows 1 person to have pvp turned off within the town region for a duration. This effect can be applied to multiple players as long as each player pays the correct amount of resources. This will allow people to build to their hearts desire but at a cost which would force them or their allies to leave town regions to gather resources.

 

[mikehk]

Here is my suggestion to make this more reasonable. Have a buff that can be bought with a set amount of resources that allows 1 person to have pvp turned off within the town region for a duration. This effect can be applied to multiple players as long as each player pays the correct amount of resources. This will allow people to build to their hearts desire but at a cost which would force them or their allies to leave town regions to gather resources.

i like this, it would have to have a warmup of like 30 seconds though and last about 5 or 6 hours. it will also turn off if they leave the town regions for more than 5 seconds.

 

[Carbash]

Well I figure it would only apply within the town region, and that's it, you can leave and pvp comes on but upon reentering it turns off. I say this because some structures may require you to leave the boundaries to create them. So having it completely turn off after 5 seconds of leaving would not be useful. It would function like a herogate no pvp zone for the individual.

 

[Dsawemd]

No.
1. It's exploitable, all player created no-pvp zones/situations are exploitable.
2. It's not needed and is not part of the Hardcore server dynamic.

The current rules allow you to live in complete safety once you build a box, why should you be able to live in complete safety BEFORE you build it?

Build a wall that can only be jumped by mobility skills, and then defend your town until you can build your stupid box like everyone else.

Dying is part of Herocraft. Now, if new town = new player, I could see this being needed. However, if someone has the resources to create a town, they are not a new player. They know how to defend an area, and if their town is too weak they know how to ask for (or buy) help from PvPers who will gladly gank the original gankers.