New Beguiler Direction

[Dsawemd]

What is it? I will update this initial summary with any official staff confirmation of Beguiler's new direction. I believe right now staff likes a revamp down the line.

I think we are on the same basic page with the new direction:
Control/Support Mage
More CC/Tricks
Less nukes/damage

More talent should be required than the current Rotation of CC-PB-FireBall-CC-PB
Fireball, Pulse, and PlagueBomb are the only damaging skills of Beguiler. That means that for the new rotation to be "fun" while still being able to flourish as a team support mage AND survive as a 1v1 or 2v2 kiting caster. Thats the goal here.
Disclaimer: No math has been done for this thread, no real numbers used. edit: nor are the skill names. We aren't there yet.


Here are some ideas:
More CC Focused Skillset:

• QuantumDance - Once every 3 seconds you and your target switch places, for 9 seconds. For tethering/kiting. Synergism with QuantumLeap allows Beguiler to do some cool stuff.

• MassPiggify/MassEntangle - Re-add this skill, remove single target entangle/piggify. This skill adds a unique cc to Beguiler, and should be available to them. Balance the inclusion with CD/resource costs.

• Beguile - Add a DoT, or it does a small chunk of Damage at the end of the skill, if not dispelled.

• FalseConfidence: Buffs your enemy target for a duration with +1 block Jump, +2% movement speed, and a bit of extra mana/stamina regen. Does a medium-large amount of damage if the Beguiler Purges FalseConfidence.
• Disarm skill: Discuss adding a disarm/Unequip skill to beguiler, on a longer cooldown than their other CC

More Tricks:

• ImAChestGoAway - Like FeignDeath, except the skill does NOT display a death message, it only disguises the Beguiler as a death chest. The skill also can be kept up until OOM (lower CD than duration), and ends when any entity gets within 1-3 blocks. This would mean that beguilers could hide as death chests. Maybe it affects party members, but has a longer CD than duration (WeAreChestsGoAway)?
• Fauxbomb - Current implementation needs revamping to see any use in-game. See next 2 bullets.
  
• Blinds and other non-movement debuffs - Beguiler has a history of plenty of CC and movement debuffs, but few minor/vision debuffs, which fit the idea of a lower damage support mage. Discuss adding blinds or nasuea to a beguiler skill (like Fauxbomb! ... which would then get a new name, like DirtyBomb!)
• PullBomb - If Fauxbomb does not get a blind or nasuea, then it could receive a Pullback. Like Knockback, Pullback is a displacement effect, but the Enemy would be AOE pulled towards the sheep for a few blocks. This would allow a team with a beguiler to punish enemies who tightly group, much like Beguiler's Nukes currently do without teammate support.

Damage Tweaking:

• PlagueBomb - 1/2 damage instantly, 1/2 as a DoT that stacks up to 2 times. Overall damage also reduced. Basically anything that changes the fact that this skill is Beguilers best and most repetitive nuke, and is becoming pretty rudimentary compared to some of the other class playstyles.
  
• Replace Fireball with BagOfTricks - Beguiler uses one of three random spells, which do a variety of damage or CC. BurningBall does most damage (slightly reduce from current fireball numbers) and sets the target on fire, BlindingBall does less damage but blinds the target, and BouncyBall is a knockback effect ideally functioning like Chain Lightning in that it slightly knocks back each target that it jumps to. Even if BouncyBall's only tiny knockback effect is from doing small damage to each target, I still think it could be interesting and fun to kite with while offering counterplay that already exists against Beguilers (do not tightly group).
  
• Pulse - Not very useful for Beguilers because they are usually so squishy and they have a stronger, cheaper, and easier to land AOE with PB. I do not think any of this needs to change when we remove the PlagueBomb nukes, Pulse will finally be used for something other than looting leather farms.

 

[LightningCape]

I will agree that FauxBomb needs a change. It has good intentions but since the real Plaguebomb does damage so quickly you don't have time in a fight to try to trick people with it. They assume it's the real one anyway.The chest thing would require a plugin that allows you to transform into blocks. Even if you used something like disguisecraft (I think) it wouldn't be a full deathchest just a regular chest that cant be opened.

Apart from the name of BagOfTricks I like the concept. The idea of random skills has been brought up before and beguiler should get such a skill if they are ever created.http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/clefairy-uses-metronome.25794/

Hopefully a revamp for beguiler will be included in the (hopefully soon) balance patch. Just need that @Balance Team & @Kainzo

 

[Dsawemd]

The chest thing would require a plugin that allows you to transform into blocks. Even if you used something like disguisecraft (I think) it wouldn't be a full deathchest just a regular chest that cant be opened.
]

The chest skill idea functions exactly like Necro's Feign Death, but it does not send out the death message to chat. I expect that a cloned version of FeignDeath, without the coding to send that chat message, would work.

 

[mikehk]

MagicAct - Teleport your target, friend or foe 1500 blocks into the air for (2+.045 per charisma) seconds, they are returned to the initial location afterwards, 1 second warmup. 18~ second cooldown usable on self

more CC, the target can obviously not be hit, and is most likely unaware of what's going on down below. can MAYBE be used for pro fireball or something, but I could honestly see alot of use coming from this, such as using it on a teammate who's getting crushed, or a key enemy in the opposing team such as a healer. they do not stay in one spot when they are TD'd, they will fall, but not long enough to hit the ground (even with full charisma). would replace masspiggify as lv 65 skill.

MindWarp - causes one of your tarket's skills to go on cooldown as if it was just used. does not effect skills with cooldowns over 2 minutes, can reset cooldowns on skills currently on cooldown. 20 second cooldown.

more CC, and luck. it'd be nice on a ranger if it hit aimedshot or explosiveshot, but summonarrow or forage would be pointless. semi-useful. misc skill, could possibly work now if the below change was implemented as for balancing of CC/damage ratio

yes yes, I know balance isnt supposed to come up with new skills, rather balance current skills.

IMO, plaguebomb cooldown could be increased if they are not to have a heavy rework, decrease cooldown and mana cost of fauxbomb.

 

[Dsawemd]

MagicAct - Teleport your target, friend or foe 1500 blocks into the air

MindWarp - causes one of your target's abilities at random, and puts it on cooldown as if it was just use

IMO, plaguebomb cooldown could be increased if they are not to have a heavy rework, decrease cooldown and mana cost of fauxbomb.

Magic Act : teleporting someone higher than the world limit is not the easiest way to accomplish a "banish" type of CC, good new cc type to explore, though. Target is Invulned, rooted, silenced, and disarmed = Banished.
Maybe I am wrong and leaving the map, then being teleported back to a fight full of skills and interaction will not cause too much lag, but I think it will, and therefore be very difficult to balance because of that double TP lag/outside sky lag.

MindWarp : EDIT - Interesting idea to force a skill to be put on cooldown. Without a public Heromod version you would not expect players to realize that their spell was on CD until they planned on using it and discovered they could not. That combined with the RNG aspect could make this skill both useful and annoying to use/play against.

The goal of the rework is to change beguiler from a nuking class. Increasing the cooldown on plaguebomb would make it a burst-cc-burst class more than it is now, but it would Not make Beguiler a control/support Mage. Edit: PB needs less damage/more kiting potential before we re-examine costs and cooldown.

Fauxbomb's future likely lies with Plaguebomb and is therefore unsure, but if nothing changes then Faux needs tweaks to see in-game play, it costs too much and since decently thrown PBs explode instantly, opponents are not conditioned to have time to evaluate whether the sheep is real, making the intent of the skill (a wary opponent is tricked by a fake bomb into playing more cautiously) impossible.

Thanks for thoughts, the MagicAct banish cc idea is cool.

 

[mikehk]

Magic Act : teleporting someone higher than the world limit is not the easiest way to accomplish a "banish" type of CC, good new cc type to explore, though. Target is Invulned, rooted, silenced, and disarmed = Banished.
Maybe I am wrong and leaving the map, then being teleported back to a fight full of skills and interaction will not cause too much lag, but I think it will, and therefore be very difficult to balance because of that double TP lag/outside sky lag.

MindWarp : as the player who suggested Fauxbomb, I can tell you MindWarp is almost as useless as it is. Why would you EVER want to give your opponent a chance to take a skill off-cooldown? Why would you EVER want to force a class to use a skill if you had no idea which skill they would use? Assuming this skill costs resources and your opponent is not a LostSoul, I vote no.

the point of the first skill is to keep them in the dark as to what's happening. the fight could change dramatically in those 2-4 seconds and you dont want them to now know what to do when they come back. it shouldnt cause too much lag as the skill could pretty much just execute 2 console commands, however extra coding would be required for the timer and such. another alternative is blindness/night vision combo paired with your combo of debuffs. the problem with this is that most everyone has optifine and simply turns void particles off

sorry on the second skill, worded it wrong, edited original idea to show what I meant. it puts a random skill on cooldown, does not actually use the skill!

 

[Dsawemd]

the point of the first skill is to keep them in the dark as to what's happening. another alternative is blindness/night vision combo paired with your combo of debuffs. the problem with this is that most everyone has optifine and simply turns void particles off

Add in a blind to the banish type cc by adding a dirt or stone tomb. We likely have the capabilities to do so, as we can see from EarthenWall and Totem Skills. Banish CC will become a thing, I vow it. Beguiler may not get it but who cares, this is cool.

Teleporting to a chunk that is full of Hero's Skills is often laggy for players, especially two teleports anywhere, and within ~3 seconds! If it works, its nice.

 

[mikehk]

Add in a blind to the banish type cc by adding a dirt or stone tomb. We likely have the capabilities to do so, as we can see from EarthenWall and Totem Skills. Banish CC will become a thing, I vow it. Beguiler may not get it but who cares, this is cool.

Teleporting to a chunk that is full of Hero's Skills is often laggy for players, especially two teleports anywhere, and within ~3 seconds! If it works, its nice.

ya, you're staying in the same chunk, its just that you're 1500 blocks above what u originally were, so your MC and the server dont have to reload or unload the chunks. also, the blind effect+night vision=complete blindness, like you cant see anything except you hand and whatever celestial body is in the sky currently if you're above ground. the screen simply turns black, but this can be negated with optifine's void particle removal.

IMO, any banish would be great for beguiler, and one question, that quantumdance, does it switch places immediately resulting in 4 switches, putting u back in ur place, or does it switch after 3 seconds, resulting in 3 switches and ending in their place?

or another idea instead of quantumdance, quantumswitch. basically randomize from the boss mobs in mob arena, it rearranges to positions of all mobs/players within 10+.2 per charisma blocks.

 

[JupiterRome]

didn't read last 3 posts BUT my idea is
Magic Cloak- You Cloak your target in magic!
What it does? - Roots disarms silences BLINDS AND FADES THE TARGET. this would effectively take the target out of combat without causing lag?

Im debating if I wanna post a beguiler rework thread that I think beguiler should be, any thoughts?

 

[LightningCape]

didn't read last 3 posts BUT my idea is
Magic Cloak- You Cloak your target in magic!
What it does? - Roots disarms silences BLINDS AND FADES THE TARGET. this would effectively take the target out of combat without causing lag?

Im debating if I wanna post a beguiler rework thread that I think beguiler should be, any thoughts?

More ideas out there the better tbh. Gives us a bigger pool to pick from when the @Balance Team and @Kainzo properly sit down and work out the skills of this class.