Increasing the level cap to 70.

[Kainzo]

@Balance Team
@Admins
@Moderators
Discuss.

 

[Sirdemonic3]

no. we are already adding shaman and have our hands full with that. not to mention without macro mod we cant even properly balance a class over how it fights another with macromod for when it comes back. dont think this is the right time

 

[malikdanab]

Would allow for a better distribution of skills and possibly new skills. There really is not bad thing from this besides more lvling, but people like lvling...RIGHT?

 

[malikdanab]

You guys aren't actually giving any input...

 

[LightningCape]

No.

Explanation: Main reason is, imo, it's just not needed. What people really want to see is grinding/lvling made better/less painful. Even if you both increased the max lvl and made grinding better it would still be unneeded.

I could go on about what I'd like to see in terms of grinding/lvling but to stay more on topic with this thread I feel it would harm the server.

 

[malikdanab]

No.

Explanation: Main reason is, imo, it's just not needed. What people really want to see is grinding/lvling made better/less painful. Even if you both increased the max lvl and made grinding better it would still be unneeded.

I could go on about what I'd like to see in terms of grinding/lvling but to stay more on topic with this thread I feel it would harm the server.

Not exactly, there is no saying that the exp curve could be made less steep. So while there would be more lvls, the actual exp would be the same. I just like that it allows for better skill distribution.

 

[LightningCape]

Not exactly, there is no saying that the exp curve could be made less steep. So while there would be more lvls, the actual exp would be the same. I just like that it allows for better skill distribution.

Much like other RPGs people like the endgame. Skill distribution is kind of of cop out tbh especially with kainzo's idea of skills be learned/added instead of one set list of skills.

 

[malikdanab]

Much like other RPGs people like the endgame. Skill distribution is kind of of cop out tbh especially with kainzo's idea of skills be learned/added instead of one set list of skills.

How does allowing skills to be paced better have anything to do with Endgame?

 

[LightningCape]

How does allowing skills to be paced better have anything to do with Endgame?

They aren't related. (Should have spaced them). People like the endgame and adding lvls would make the journey to get their annoying. I was once part of another hero server (that will remain nameless) that changed their level cap from 40 to 90. It died. Ik 70 =/= 90 but I thought that information is relevant.

Spacing skills really should not be a reason for this.

 

[malikdanab]

They aren't related. (Should have spaced them). People like the endgame and adding lvls would make the journey to get their annoying. I was once part of another hero server (that will remain nameless) that changed their level cap from 40 to 90. It died. Ik 70 =/= 90 but I thought that information is relevant.

Spacing skills really should not be a reason for this.

Did you even read the part where this wouldn't (Potentially) affect how fast it took to master...

Would be nice to see your thought processes about this @Kainzo

 

[Kainzo]

no. we are already adding shaman and have our hands full with that. not to mention without macro mod we cant even properly balance a class over how it fights another with macromod for when it comes back. dont think this is the right time

We won't balance around mods - so please bring something relevant to this discussion.

 

[Kainzo]

Would allow for a better distribution of skills and possibly new skills. There really is not bad thing from this besides more lvling, but people like lvling...RIGHT?

Correct - having 5 more levels means you can distro more attribute points - it changes builds. We can also spread out more skills and add new ones (like buffs/etc).

It's really not a matter of "if" its a matter of "when".

 

[Yavool]

Eventually, perhaps. At this time, probably not a good idea until the key components of HC are in place. PVP is by far the biggest issue. Assuming for a second that everything on the "to do" list has been caught up and stabilized (class balancing, Shaman, townships, profession balancing, PVP, quests, arenas, boss mobs, etc. etc.), then raising the level cap would be a nice way to tweak the game a little through shifts in the prevalent build comps. I would love to see a Paladin finally able to wear all-diamond armor, for instance, and perhaps with a few more attribute points, a Paladin could. It would allow the glass cannon builds to be even more glass cannony; the balance builds to add a little bit more to each attribute; and the defensive builds to be a little more tanky. If the desire to add extended buffs is one of the key goals, then skills could be reassigned throughout the levels to include such buffs.

The caveat that I have is: to add anything that brings more class skills in right now is to further frustrate a community that is already having a hard time managing their skills without macros. I know that as a level capped Necro, I don't have nearly enough hotbar room to load all of my relevant spells and still be able to have a space or two available for a block. I understand not wanting to build HC around a specific mod, but in the same token, we have to be congizant of the fact that it just isn't practical to type "/skill <skillname> in the midst of a battle, whether it is PVP or PVE, and to bind things to tools or off weapons is the only recourse we have right now. It just doesn't make sense in the short run to be focusing on anything but getting caught up on the things promised since Bastion closed, imho; but in the long run, it sounds like a fine idea.

-yav

 

[malikdanab]

Eventually, perhaps. At this time, probably not a good idea until the key components of HC are in place. PVP is by far the biggest issue. Assuming for a second that everything on the "to do" list has been caught up and stabilized (class balancing, Shaman, townships, profession balancing, PVP, quests, arenas, boss mobs, etc. etc.), then raising the level cap would be a nice way to tweak the game a little through shifts in the prevalent build comps. I would love to see a Paladin finally able to wear all-diamond armor, for instance, and perhaps with a few more attribute points, a Paladin could. It would allow the glass cannon builds to be even more glass cannony; the balance builds to add a little bit more to each attribute; and the defensive builds to be a little more tanky. If the desire to add extended buffs is one of the key goals, then skills could be reassigned throughout the levels to include such buffs.

The caveat that I have is: to add anything that brings more class skills in right now is to further frustrate a community that is already having a hard time managing their skills without macros. I know that as a level capped Necro, I don't have nearly enough hotbar room to load all of my relevant spells and still be able to have a space or two available for a block. I understand not wanting to build HC around a specific mod, but in the same token, we have to be congizant of the fact that it just isn't practical to type "/skill <skillname> in the midst of a battle, whether it is PVP or PVE, and to bind things to tools or off weapons is the only recourse we have right now. It just doesn't make sense in the short run to be focusing on anything but getting caught up on the things promised since Bastion closed, imho; but in the long run, it sounds like a fine idea.

-yav

I here you, but I hate this arguement.

Why do this when "X" hasn't been done yet. Division of labor provides it so that different things are done by different people. Also, how exactly is this hard to implement? The only changes would be:

• Level Cap is now 70 (Damn that sure is hard to do...)
• Possible rearrangement of skills (Doesn't have to be done all at once. We can look at skill placement when we do a balance check.)
• More skills (^Above^)

 

[LightningCape]

Correct - having 5 more levels means you can distro more attribute points - it changes builds. We can also spread out more skills and add new ones (like buffs/etc).

It's really not a matter of "if" its a matter of "when".

I'm assuming this is in the foreseeable future and not "soon".

I here you, but I hate this arguement.

Why do this when "X" hasn't been done yet. Division of labor provides it so that different things are done by different people. Also, how exactly is this hard to implement? The only changes would be:

• Level Cap is now 70 (Damn that sure is hard to do...)
• Possible rearrangement of skills (Doesn't have to be done all at once. We can look at skill placement when we do a balance check.)
• More skills (^Above^)

Sure we can balance skills. Sure we can add new skills, however, are people ready for it? Would they want it?

(Two questions I don't claim to know the exact answer to btw)

 

[LightningCape]

Guess I'd be fine with this if exp could be lowered so that getting to lvl 70 really doesn't feel like adding 5 more lvls past the current lvl 65 (if that makes sense)

Did you even read the part where this wouldn't (Potentially) affect how fast it took to master...

Would be nice to see your thought processes about this @Kainzo

Guess I didn't read.

 

[Eldrylars]

I don't mind the idea of raising the Cap and the changes it would bring, but I would suggest holding that off until you are releasing features to pair with it.

Releasing:

Level Cap Increase and Quests!
Level Cap Increase and Boss Mobs!
Level Cap Increase and PVP Objectives!
Level Cap Increase and Tome Skill System!

Level caps by itself is in my mind a limited addition to the game, but match it with new content that will improve or enhance it and you will make a bigger splash. Pretty sure anytime any other MMO decided to level cap increase they tied it to new content to help promote it more.

My two cents.

 

[Delfofthebla]

Increasing the level cap is a common tactic used by most MMORPG's to add extra content to the game. However, I do not think it should be done for the hell of it, and I think it can often do more harm than good if not accompanied by a suitable amount of content.

* Without adding new skills to every class, a level cap will only make players feel frustrated about being forced to grind another 5 levels for no reason.
* If there are indeed new skills that can be added to every class, I still disagree, because there are already so many skills that most players can barely keep up. This, combined with the fact that macro mod is not out, and may not ever be out, adding in more skills will only seek to cause more balance issues and frustration during any PvP combat.
* There have been no changes to the leveling process to make it more enjoyable, and thus, nobody will really enjoy the update.

------------
If dungeons were in, or if there were regular leveling events to make the process more enjoyable, I would agree, but otherwise, I see no reason to do this. It will cause frustration, and any attempts to alleviate that frustration are likely to spawn balance issues.


EDIT:

We won't balance around mods - so please bring something relevant to this discussion.

Kainzo, if we are not balancing around mods, then you either need to make the mod illegal, or find a suitable replacement within Heroes. The balance revolves around Macro mod, whether you like it or not. Without the mod available, the PvP balance is practically non-existant, as melee classes and combo-based classes simply cannot keep up. Item Binds are no way a replacement, and are actually impossible to use for most melee classes.

If you want Macro Mod to be out of the picture, then it's time to start reworking and removing some skills.

 

[malikdanab]

Adding one more skill wouldn't be too much of a problem, but I understand the problem. TBH I'd like us to finish shaman then don't touch any new skills or classes until we balance the current ones. I agree with Eldrylars and that we should probably include the lvl cap increase with a major feature (I say new skill system).

 

[Delfofthebla]

Adding one more skill wouldn't be too much of a problem, but I understand the problem. TBH I'd like us to finish shaman then don't touch any new skills or classes until we balance the current ones. I agree with Eldrylars and that we should probably include the lvl cap increase with a major feature (I say new skill system).

As far as a content update goes, I think most people will be content with just seeing a new class added. Especially since the class will come with new mechanics and an entirely new skillset.

For other classes, you could always throw in new skills if you wanna spice things up, but I'd argue that your better off taking some away first to solve the excessively large skill pool issue. Until we have new leveling content however, I just don't see a new level cap being beneficial.