Endurance/EquipWeight

[Kainzo]

This is a discussion for the balancing of Equip Weight and Endurance gains.

Feel free to discuss

@Balance Team

 

[BulkPhase]

There needs to be an incentive to use Gold & Leather armor. I don't even see people use either of them any more, not sure if it's because the materials are somewhat scarce or if it's just because iron is more plentiful & has more durability. Iron/Chain seems to be the choice of flavor.

 

[victim130]

Iron armor is too easy to make in comparison to leather and gold. Though, if we could slow down players based on what kind of armor they wore, less players would cling to iron or diamond. Str/End could reduce the slow rate armor gives. This would allow tanks to not be ridiculously slow, but would trump casters wearing iron legs over some leather.

Now I'm no coder and I have no idea how easy this is to implement (Or how hard), but it would be the logical and easiest way I can think of. Unless we calculated armor weight into durability as well.

More on the topic of the current system though, I feel some rogue classes are getting much more armor than they should, but I'm thinking the latest push fixed some of that. I'll keep my eye out for any problems.

 

[Eldrylars]

Are we trying to keep the armor amounts similar to what they were pre stats + potentials for higher/lower if the player wants to invest points?

They were pretty spot on before attributes.

 

[Licksterboy]

I have gotten several people complain to me about endurance. They've said a wizard or ninja should not be running around with diamond armor on and still be able to burst down their enemies. A particular friend of mine was also telling me how dragoons have stamina for days since endurance gives stamina regeneration. I personally feel like we should limit classes to a max amount of weight but this will obviously not please everyone, some people have even suggested to remove endurance and go back to the old system.

EDIT: I just reread some of the responses and I think the idea of reducing your agility by investing in endurance points is an excellent idea. If a wizard wants to drag himself around, be my guest.

 

[BulkPhase]

I have gotten several people complain to me about endurance. They've said a wizard or ninja should not be running around with diamond armor on and still be able to burst down their enemies. A particular friend of mine was also telling me how dragoons have stamina for days since endurance gives stamina regeneration. I personally feel like we should limit classes to a max amount of weight but this will obviously not please everyone, some people have even suggested to remove endurance and go back to the old system.

EDIT: I just reread some of the responses and I think the idea of reducing your agility by investing in endurance points is an excellent idea. If a wizard wants to drag himself around, be my guest.

You're forgetting about Rogue classes which have high stamina costs and use endurance & agility. Endurance shouldn't lower agility, that might help the iron armor problem but it would just cripple other classes.

 

[Eldrylars]

I have not put the normal time into this, and there are several ways to approach it, I believe our target is not to suggest changing the ways Endurance works but to adjust the amount of endurance each class should be able to get with maximum endurance and working backwords.

For instance, it takes 60 weight to hold full chain. Should a Wizard be able to get full chain? If he does, it should take all him attribute points. Is it a balanced trade off of health/mana/damage to allow a wizard to fully spec endurance to wear full chain. That's what we are looking for.

Suggestions have their place too and I will give you an example of a suggestion to keep conversation going, but lets try to focus on changing the starting(lol, when I was typing starting I first typed sharting) weights and starting endurance to balance it that way.

Possible suggestion,

It would complicate things but would force another divergence in attributes to gain the ability to wear heavier armor.
Make Chain, Iron and Diamond slow your movement speed(not modify your agility) and then make strength counter act that penalty. So that any class with 0 strength wearing Diamond will move slower then the same with 9 Str.

On the fly:
Each piece of diamond = -5.0 movement
Each piece of iron = -3.0 movement
Each piece of chain = -1.5 movement

This is exactly countered by STR so to wear full chain(-6%) and not get slowed you need at least 6 STR, or to wear full diamond(-20%) you would need at least 20 STR. Numbers are just made up as we should not focus on this, but as an example.

Could some enterprising person with a little time grab the starting weights and endurance of each class and we can review it?

If it's not done by this evening I will grab the numbers and post them here when I am out of work.

 

[Eldrylars]

Cleric -

Base Weight: 46.25 Base End: 5 StartWeight: 50 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Druid -

Base Weight: 26.25 Base End: 5 StartWeight: 30 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Bloodmage -

Base Weight: 26.25 Base End: -5 StartWeight: 22.5 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Disciple -

Base Weight: 18.75 Base End: -5 StartWeight:15 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Wizard -

Base Weight: 26.25 Base End: -3 StartWeight: 24 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Beguiler -

Base Weight: 26.25 Base End: -3 StartWeight: 24 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Pyromancer -

Base Weight: 33.75 Base End: -3 StartWeight: 31.5 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Necromancer -

Base Weight: 30.00 Base End: -3 StartWeight: 27.75 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

DreadKnight -

Base Weight: 53.75 Base End: 6 StartWeight: 58.75 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Paladin -

Base Weight: 60.00 Base End: 7 StartWeight: 65.25 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Berserker -

Base Weight: 41.25 Base End: 3 StartWeight: 43.5 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Dragoon -

Base Weight: 52.50 Base End: 4 StartWeight: 55.5 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Ninja -

Base Weight: 30.00 Base End: 2 StartWeight: 31.5 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Ranger -

Base Weight: 36.75 Base End: 5 StartWeight: 40.5 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Bard -

Base Weight: 52.50 Base End: 5 StartWeight: 56.25 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:​

Runeblade -

Base Weight: 25.00 Base End: 2 StartWeight: 26.5 MaxArmor: PreviousArmor: TargetArmor:

Anyone want to google docs this so we can play with the numbers easier?​

 

[Sirdemonic3]

As a necro with 14 endurance i can put on 4 bars of armor, aka a dia chest plate, which is the same as full leather, but i prefer to use chain helm/boots with iron legs. Its the same armor as leather just lasts longer

 

[Delfofthebla]

As a necro with 14 endurance i can put on 4 bars of armor, aka a dia chest plate, which is the same as full leather, but i prefer to use chain helm/boots with iron legs. Its the same armor as leather just lasts longer

Diamond Chest is one half armor more than leather, for the record.

There needs to be an incentive to use Gold & Leather armor. I don't even see people use either of them any more, not sure if it's because the materials are somewhat scarce or if it's just because iron is more plentiful & has more durability. Iron/Chain seems to be the choice of flavor.

This will happen once we have custom items. For now, you are correct, there is -no- incentive at all. And while that might be a little derp for a while, it is ultimately a problem we saw coming, and decided it was something we would deal with. Until the items are out, this will be an issue.

Are we trying to keep the armor amounts similar to what they were pre stats + potentials for higher/lower if the player wants to invest points?

They were pretty spot on before attributes.

Yes.


I will make a more lengthy post on this topic soon.