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Disarm

TicklesTheMighty

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Here's what I've managed to figure out about Disarm thus far though I can't say this is entirely accurate.

Disarm

Mana cost: 15% (used to be 20%)
Cooldown: 3 seconds
Duration: 3 seconds (not positive on this, it seems to go very slightly longer whenever I cast, but this could be blamed on lag)
Range: Will soon be 6 according to Kainzo's post on the Patch 2.7.5 announcement (used to be 15)
Apparent Intended Effect: Forces the opponent to fight with fists or bows only for the duration of the debuff.
Actual Effect: Removes the opponent's equipped weapon from the game for the duration of the debuff. If the opponent attempts to switch to an Axe, Sword, Hoe, or Pickaxe, they are disconnected from the server. If the opponent is disarmed while holding a bow, the bow is returned instantly, and if they switched to a bow while disarmed, they can fight as usual so long as they don't switch to any melee weapon.

Once again, I can't say that this is entirely accurate (especially the apparent intended effect part) but it's what I've gleaned from testing and the information we've been given on disarm. The lack of bow disarming seems to be intentional, though I can't say for sure.

I have two problems with this skill, the first one is that you seem to be able to chain-disarm opposing melee-oriented Rogues into oblivion since the cooldown is equal to the duration, and a Warrior battle could easily degrade to a Disarm fest until everyone's out of mana (though not necessarily). You can of course disarm-chain other classes as well, it's just not as seemingly crippling to a non-Warrior/Rogue class. I think that the cooldown and duration should probably be adjusted so that the opponent could perhaps at least have the chance to get a good whack or two in before losing their weapon again, because the skill as I see it now seems to be fairly overpowered for a skill that every Warrior class gets.

My second problem is that it causes the opponent to disconnect. I understand that this is workable, because if they don't log back in they can be reported for combat logging (and possibly abuse) but it seems to be a very frustrating mechanic to both parties in the case of an opponent accidentally switching, not knowing what disarm would do, or forgetting what was happening in the heat of battle. I suggest that to effectively prevent an opponent from switching to another melee weapon and continuing battle, attempting to circumvent disarm effects should result in a solid 3 second stun. This wouldn't inconvenience the "disarmer", would cover the same duration as disarm in case they attempt to switch absolutely instantly, and give the "disarmee" a very strong incentive to not attempt to circumvent disarm. Any 3 second penalty aside from a disconnect would work, but the disconnect mechanic seems to me to be not at all desirable.
 

Sleaker

Retired Staff
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Portland, Oregon
My second problem is that it causes the opponent to disconnect. I understand that this is workable, because if they don't log back in they can be reported for combat logging (and possibly abuse) but it seems to be a very frustrating mechanic to both parties in the case of an opponent accidentally switching, not knowing what disarm would do, or forgetting what was happening in the heat of battle. I suggest that to effectively prevent an opponent from switching to another melee weapon and continuing battle, attempting to circumvent disarm effects should result in a solid 3 second stun. This wouldn't inconvenience the "disarmer", would cover the same duration as disarm in case they attempt to switch absolutely instantly, and give the "disarmee" a very strong incentive to not attempt to circumvent disarm. Any 3 second penalty aside from a disconnect would work, but the disconnect mechanic seems to me to be not at all desirable.

So basically you're saying remove disarm and have it be a stun instead? Sounds like you just don't want disarm anymore. Anyway, disarm should be a bit more stable now and we've been looking at why it was disconnecting players. Secondarily, when was the last time you saw someone get d/c ed because disarm was used on them?
 

Dazureus

Legacy Supporter 4
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Location
Texas
Well, if they have the weapons for it, why shouldn't they be able to switch to another one? This is Minecraft, inventory slots etcetera. If people start accounting for the possibility of being Disarmed, it'll work fine as-is. If not... well, they should have accounted for the possibility of being Disarmed.

As for the disconnect thing, Sleaker's post makes it seem like that was unintentional. What about simply removing other weapons they try to switch to in the same manner as they removed the first one?

Can I ask why bows appear to be an exception to Disarm's effect? It seems... off. You can knock a bow out of a person's hand as well as you can another weapon.
 

Sleaker

Retired Staff
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Portland, Oregon
Can I ask why bows appear to be an exception to Disarm's effect? It seems... off. You can knock a bow out of a person's hand as well as you can another weapon.

Bugs most likely - and the switching to remove weapons is what we do. The disconnect was coming in when players were attempting to quick swap between items that were in the process of being removed by the server. So basically - if a player gets disarmed, they shouldn't start scrolling their inventory insanely fast to try and get a weapon back.

The idea of disarm was to prevent players from equipping a weapon during the duration because of how easy it is to make a backup sword it would make disarm pretty useless if it only removed 1 weapon for the duration but allowed someone to just flip to an open slot and equip an identical weapon.

So the disarm skill is more 'you got hit in your hand and can't effectively wield a weapon right now' rather than 'I made you drop your current weapon'
 

TicklesTheMighty

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Nope, I wasn't saying anything about removing disarm or making it a stun instead. As for the disconnect thing, at the time of my post we had just tested Disarm several times, and I had caused the disarmed opponent to disconnect 4-5 times, every single time they switched weapons, as I clearly detailed in my post.

And yah, Dazureus, he did make it seem like the disconnect and bow things were unintentional. The reason I thought it could somewhat possibly be intentional, is because it was so very consistent. Disarm consistently disconnected an opponent who attempted to switch to a melee weapon, and Disarm consistently had no effect on anyone holding a bow. And even then I thought for sure it would be removed soon. If it removed every weapon from their inventory then it would work just fine and I dearly hope it gets to that point. But at the time of my post it was a very...interesting skill.
 

Sleaker

Retired Staff
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Portland, Oregon
If it removed every weapon from their inventory then it would work just fine and I dearly hope it gets to that point. But at the time of my post it was a very...interesting skill.

Yah I'm thinking it might be better to just remove all of a players weapons from their inventory slots for the duration. I wasn't the one who initially coded it so there are some bugs we are working through on it, and some implementations that are obviously getting worked out. Thanks for bearing with us :)
 

TicklesTheMighty

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Yah I'm thinking it might be better to just remove all of a players weapons from their inventory slots for the duration. I wasn't the one who initially coded it so there are some bugs we are working through on it, and some implementations that are obviously getting worked out. Thanks for bearing with us :)
I can see how it might be a bit more difficult to debug someone else's code. :p I'm sure you guys will have it working satisfactorily as soon as possible.

With that aside, regarding balance issues, I can at this time chain-disarm a single target for 24 straight seconds from full mp before I have to wait for a bit more mana to disarm them again. This seems that it would make fighting a Warrior with a weapon a daunting task.
 

Demonxman

Obsidian
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
I can see how it might be a bit more difficult to debug someone else's code. :p I'm sure you guys will have it working satisfactorily as soon as possible.

With that aside, regarding balance issues, I can at this time chain-disarm a single target for 24 straight seconds from full mp before I have to wait for a bit more mana to disarm them again. This seems that it would make fighting a Warrior with a weapon a daunting task.
fix - make the cd more than 3-15 seconds?
 

TicklesTheMighty

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
I think it could use a cooldown/duration adjustment, though I'm not sure what the maker had in mind for this skill.

Edit - Nevermind. ^ What Sleaker said.
 

TicklesTheMighty

ICE ICE ICE!
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Finally got some playtesting in on it, everything seems to have been addressed. So far as I'm concerned, Disarm is working perfectly and the cooldown seems well-balanced.
 
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