Suggestion [Class] - Refining Pyromancer

[itemten]

After playing a couple hours as a pyro and seeing some of the skill descriptions I discovered a few tweaks that may make the experience a bit more enjoyable/authentic. Most of the tweaks involve making it more warrior-like which is similar to the class' description.

::Changes to Existing Skills::

• Kick - From my understanding of the class it's more of a Caster's version of a warrior. Why not give it a warrior path ability like Disarm, Bash or Cleave instead? I think this would fit the class better as from its description it's not intended to be Rogue-like. I understand that Kick has a good deal of utility (from playing rogue paths) but so does Disarm.
• Fire Blade - Seeing as this is the fire class shouldn't it have a higher proc rate?
• Wither - Needs a name and description change. Something like "Immolate" or "Combustion". With a description like: "Your spell causes a raging fire within your target (range 9 blocks) that consumes them from within for 15 damage every 2 seconds until the spell causes the target to combust after 6 seconds causing an additional 50 damage." Wither sounds like a non fire oriented spell.
• Flame Armor - This change goes hand-in-hand with the armor changes mentioned below. Just change "Gold chest plate" to "Iron chest plate" then make the skill passive with a much lower proc chance on hit ...something like 2.5 to 5% (or 1 out of every 20 or 40 hits). Alternatively, the skill could be kept active and given similar costs, duration and cooldown to Fire Blade. This actually makes the skill useful as it's a waste to make a gold chest plate, that will wear out in no time flat, only to have a 1 in 5 shot in causing a meager amount of DOT fire damage. The armor requirements need to be balanced with the damage otherwise this skill has almost no utility.

::Allowed Armor::

• Chest Plate - Add iron to allowable chest armor. This definitely distinguishes this class from the other caster classes as being warrior-like. It makes sense that Pyro's get an added defense to make them more melee capable. In adding the iron chest plate I suggest that chain-mail boots be removed in reciprocation so we're not making it too beefy.

::Additional/Alternative Skill Suggestions::
These spell(s) could replace existing spells (like Flame Armor) or be added to the present spell list. Obviously, the values of spell magnitude, duration and cool downs are up for debate.

• Ifrit's Vigor - Heals half a heart every three seconds for twelve seconds. Could include a small attack buff in this duration to melee and/or fire damage.
• Inferno Strike - Fire magic is channeled into the Pyromancer's axe such that the next melee attack causes a concussive blast that deals 150 fire damage, knockback and a 7% chance of immolation to all enemies within a 2 to 3 block radius of the struck target.
• Fire Eater - for the duration of the spell all fire-type damage heals the Pyromancer for half of the original damage.

 

[TheMrLief]

It's supposed to rogue like, not warrior like.

 

[what777]

to add to that, they have good armor already and don't need iron chestplates.
If you ask FuturizeHandgun he'll tell you Pyro is in a good state atm, and he is pretty much the best pyro on the server.

 

[MultiHeartGold]

1. Kick - From my understanding of the class it's more of a Caster's version of a warrior. Why not give it a warrior path ability like Disarm, Bash or Cleave instead? I think this would fit the class better as from its description it's not intended to be Rogue-like. I understand that Kick has a good deal of utility (from playing rogue paths) but so does Disarm.

2. Fire Blade - Seeing as this is the fire class shouldn't it have a higher proc rate?

3. Wither - Needs a name and description change. Something like "Immolate" or "Combustion". With a description like: "Your spell causes a raging fire within your target (range 9 blocks) that consumes them from within for 15 damage every 2 seconds until the spell causes the target to combust after 6 seconds causing an additional 50 damage." Wither sounds like a non fire oriented spell.

4. Flame Armor - This change goes hand-in-hand with the armor changes mentioned below. Just change "Gold chest plate" to "Iron chest plate" then make the skill passive with a much lower proc chance on hit ...something like 2.5 to 5% (or 1 out of every 20 or 40 hits). Alternatively, the skill could be kept active and given similar costs, duration and cooldown to Fire Blade. This actually makes the skill useful as it's a waste to make a gold chest plate, that will wear out in no time flat, only to have a 1 in 5 shot in causing a meager amount of DOT fire damage. The armor requirements need to be balanced with the damage otherwise this skill has almost no utility.

5.Chest Plate - Add iron to allowable chest armor. This definitely distinguishes this class from the other caster classes as being warrior-like. It makes sense that Pyro's get an added defense to make them more melee capable. In adding the iron chest plate I suggest that chain-mail boots be removed in reciprocation so we're not making it too beefy.

6. Ifrit's Vigor- Heals half a heart every three seconds for twelve seconds. Could include a small attack buff in this duration to melee and/or fire damage.

7. Inferno Strike - Fire magic is channeled into the Pyromancer's axe such that the next melee attack causes a concussive blast that deals 150 fire damage, knockback and a 7% chance of immolation to all enemies within a 2 to 3 block radius of the struck target.

8.Fire Eater - for the duration of the spell all fire-type damage heals the Pyromancer for half of the original damage

(added numbers to show which part I am quoting)
1. In my opinion, Pyromancer is meant to be a Rogue/Caster hybrid instead of Warrior/Caster, so Kick would be better than the Warrior skills.
2. Well, while it might make sense to have a higher rate, making it too high would result in a passive Fire Aspect, and looking at the other skills, Pyromancer aldready has enough fire.
3. I agree with Wither not sounding like a fire spell, but instead of naming it as ones you suggested, maybe name it "BlackFire", as Wither could be considered a fire that is black because of being very lethal. Your idea would work too.
4. FireArmor should stay as Gold Chestplate, as it is pretty strong, and wearing a piece of Gold armor would keep it balanced. By strong, I am talking about the fire, as it counters stuff like DoTs nicely.
5. I dont think giving a piece of iron armor would be a very good idea when talking about a class that can use ranged damage (Fireball, etc.)
6. A nice idea, but I dont think giving a hybrid of Rogue and Caster a healing skill would be a good idea.
7. This is a nice idea, but seems like a too powerful skill for the current balance. Maybe when/if level 65s are added, something similiar to this could be used for Pyromancer?
8. Same as 6

 

[itemten]

Thanks for the good feedback. I appreciate it!

Yeah, pretty much all of my suggestions follow the Caster-Warrior vs. Caster-Rogue path. The description of the class makes it seem like it's not rogue-ish as it projects a more "in your face" melee-caster versus a stealthy/shadowy melee caster. IMO: if it doesn't sneak and/or poison it's not truly a Rogue-ish path. If the original intent of the class was to make it as a Caster-Rogue then it's not really defined that way on the wiki. You could say it's a combat oriented-caster class but it lacks a truly damaging melee ability (kick is not that damaging but definitely worth it for utility). I think Disarm would be more appropriate as it would counter most melee dps classes within melee range.

As for the fire aspect: I'm not asking that it proc all the time just that it becomes something like 10% of the time versus 7% (or 1 in 10 vs. 1 in 14). However, if the way the heroes plugin is scripted is such that the "Fire Blade" ability is one command utilized by several classes then it would be redundant/dumb to have a second "Fire Blade" ability that's just a bit better only for one class. If that's the case then scrap this suggestion! ^_^

So far as the iron chest plate goes: it seems like the consensus from experienced players is "don't need it". As that's the case I'll just wait to level up some more and get a better opinion on this topic.

A short duration and low magnitude regenerative healing ability will not break the bank. Necromancer gets a healing ability right off the bat with Drain Soul that not only heals but damages their target. It makes sense that a melee-caster would have some particular skill that provides additional survivability within melee range as most of the time they'll fold under melee attacks due to low damage protection. Albeit having a skill that heals half a heart every 3 seconds for a dozen seconds (two hearts total) will make the difference in close fights but not when the Pyromancer is being cornered and/or taking hits like crazy. Well, I say all this without knowing how the lvl 60 pyromancer fights go so the truth of it would lie in the results: does two hearts make all the difference or only prolong the inevitable? All that aside, the genesis of this idea was in the ASOIAF/Game of Thrones series with the priests of R'hollor being able to heal/restore life through fire.

 

[TheMrLief]

Not all rogues are stealthy and shadowy, Bard and Runeblade's are perfect examples of that.

 

[FuturizeHandgun]

Pyro currently standing is not a simple class to play, and thus people believe its underpowered. There are several things that need tweaking, but, the class overall is really balanced in a sense that changing one skill will effect another skills ability. Tweaking the chestplates for example to iron, and reducing its fireproc will really effect the pyro's gameplay, as now there is less time that the DOT will possibly be on the target. Not only that, but adding iron really makes him a tank. Thats not good, as pyros are rogue-caster hybrid, and by adding iron, you make him to tanky. Other skills that you added really make him OP. Sure gold is a total bitch to craft and useless, chainmail chest makes more sense rather than iron. Also Chain boots do NOT effect armor compared to leather. They are the exact same. With chaosorb not teleporting, pyro has lost a good amount of lust, as it cannot move around as quickly as it used to. Overall I like some of your tweaks, but adding more skills will only sway the class to the OP side, and rebalancing the damages will only make it weaker, as looking at each skill, they don't seem to out of the ordinary, but when its used together in situational terms, its extremely effective. The class from my perspective, isn't about being upclose, and in their face, and neither is it kiting class, but its a class where you are constantly distancing yourself and changing points of attack, allowing you to come in close, and jump back out. Using chaosorb, and firewave to jump in and deal damage, then flying back and popping your dots and fireball then coming in for a kick is just one combination. The great thing about this class is that it has a huge variety of play styles incorporated into it. Honestly don't know where this is going haha.

 

[Kainzo]

Common misconception:
Pyromancer's only deal with "fire". This is 100% false. Pyromancers deal with the dark magic as well as fire.
Poisons, corruptions, "withering" is well in the range of the Pyromancer.

Please look up the skills for Pyromancer from Dark Souls.

 

[TheMrLief]

Common misconception:
Pyromancer's only deal with "fire". This is 100% false. Pyromancers deal with the dark magic as well as fire.
Poisons, corruptions, "withering" is well in the range of the Pyromancer.

Please look up the skills for Pyromancer from Dark Souls.

God I really hate Dark Souls....

 

[Kainzo]

God I really hate Dark Souls....

Its a great game

 

[lmfaos_robot]

I think if you give this class the Sneak ability it would actually feel like a hybrid. To balance this out if the Pyro uses a ranged attack (like fireball) he is no longer in sneak mode but if the Pyro uses a close range attack like his axe or kick then he will continue to be in sneak mode. This will make the class really feel like a hybrid. Also chain mail chestplate isn't such a bad idea because gold and chain chestplate provide the exact same defense (at least in vanilla MC) and it will just make it so the chestplates last longer and don't use gold, but iron (more common) instead.

 

[Delfofthebla]

God I really hate Dark Souls....

Was the best game to release in a long long time.

 

[TheMrLief]

Was the best game to release in a long long time.

It makes me rage so hard

 

[Delfofthebla]

It makes me rage so hard

lol. Did you ever manage to beat it?

Demon / Dark souls were great games due to the fact that the difficulty was entirely within the level design and combat mechanics. Once you learned how to fight, and once you learned the layouts of the levels, you could become a god. What once took you 2 hours to beat could be done in 10 minutes, once you play enough.

The game was really rewarding--it made you feel so good when you finally got passed the difficulty. Easily one of my favorite series's now.