[Class] Let's talk about pyro ^_^

[LightningCape]

'Been meaning to make this for awhile now but didn't know how to go about doing it. Let's start

What this thread will be about​

This thread will be about the current state of Pyromancers as well as suggesting some changes that I feel would balance out the class. No demands, rage, or crying. Simply ideas and facts.​

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If you don't have anything positive, constructive, or factual please don't post.​

Pyromancer ​

As we all know pryomancer is fairly powerfully class. Dealing 80 damage with a diamond axe (Without armor) it hits pretty hard. Throw in a silence, seemingly endless fire damage, and withering, you have a class that can solo most (if not all) non-warrior classes. ​

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With gold armor they have a passive that has a chance lights any attacker on wither it be melee damage or any other skill. On-top of which they have a skill that causes opponents to have a 50% rate of actually doing any damage do them.​

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For the most part a maxed pyromancer can essentially shit on:​

-Most healers (Most, if not all)​

-Any class with bad mobility​

-Classes that are hard to use well (Ex: Ranger, Necromancer)​

-People who aren't masters (In terms of skill) at their class​

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Suggested fixes and changes​

• Lower the axe damage

-The axe damage is very high. Even if it floats around 45-50ish for people with armor it still stacks up mighty quick. Not everyone can afford to walk around with full armor all the time. That 80 damage per swing is what they're gonna see.​

• Change (Passive) Firearmor to only affect Left click attacks or have a short range

-It's kinda silly if you shot a pyromancer from a fair distance away with say fireball or Ire you'll still be set on fire.​

• Change Curse's fail to hit from 50% to [45%] or [40%]

-With every hit you miss fighting a pyromancer you take: ​

-Heavy melee damage (100% likely)​

-Withering Damage (Not 100% likely)​

-Fire damage (Unless you're in water it's pretty likely)​

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Summary ​

With high damage skills and melee, as well as insane fire dps pyromancers are a force to be reckoned with. Atm it's probably regarded as one of, if not the strongest class.​

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I know for a fact I'm not the only one who feels this class is either broken or imbalanced. Most people I've talked to find the damage and capability of pyromancers to be silly and or disgusting.​

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Hopefilly this class is being looked at. Thanks for reading.​

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-Light​

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[lioIIoil]

Pyro opieeee.

Since many classes got melee nerf they need one too.

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

• Lower the axe damage

-The axe damage is very high. Even if it floats around 45-50ish for people with armor it still stacks up mighty quick. Not everyone can afford to walk around with full armor all the time. That 80 damage per swing is what they're gonna see.​

• Change (Passive) Firearmor to only affect Left click attacks or have a short range

-It's kinda silly if you shot a pyromancer from a fair distance away with say fireball or Ire you'll still be set on fire.​

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Winner, Winner, Fucking Chicken Dinner.

 

[Delfofthebla]

Biased poll, no option for underpowered.

• Change (Passive) Firearmor to only affect Left click attacks or have a short range

-It's kinda silly if you shot a pyromancer from a fair distance away with say fireball or Ire you'll still be set on fire.

I can agree with this I suppose. I don't believe it was ever meant to work with ranged attacks anyways.

For the most part a maxed pyromancer can essentially shit on:
-Most healers (Most, if not all)
-Any class with bad mobility
-Classes that are hard to use well (Ex: Ranger, Necromancer)
-People who aren't masters (In terms of skill) at their class​

* They do rape most healers pretty hard, but I don't see an issue with that, as most healers rape a large amount of classes themselves.
* A lot of classes with bad mobility still have tools to fight back (Such as Paladin, DK, or Disciple)
* Necro dies to anything that can move faster than molasses. It's an issue I hope to address in a future revamp.


"People who aren't masters" basically refers to people who do not know how to counter kiting tactics, or dodge fireballs.


I understand that there is a very large outcry of Pyromancer balance from the community, but I'll be honest, it makes me rage a bit when people do. Here's the thing with Pyro. It isn't that good. Pyromancer is a very weak class that has nothing more than damage going for it. He has no mobility, no "proper" kiting tools, and he has no melee abilities to compliment his supposed melee role.

Despite his wonky design and awkward skillset, he can actually kite in a 1v1 situation rather flawlessly, which I am fully aware of. However, the moment he has to deal with anything other than the opponent directly in front of him, he gets destroyed.

I would not solo PvP as a Pyro.
I would not teamfight PvP as a Pyro.
I would not bring a Pyro to a PvP teamfight.
I would not bring a Pyro to a PvP Tournament.

You know what it's good at? /col duel and arenas. That is the ONLY place the Pyromancer is useful in, and on certain maps he's just as garbage as he is in the real world. He can duel, and he can duel well. He is very strong in these situations, and if not countered properly, he has a large edge over his opponents. But can he be beaten? You bet your ass. He can be beaten by most classes even--you just need to know how to play it. Most of you just don't put forth the effort to do so. (And STDs, you disappoint me here--you have Chakra for christs sakes. How you would ever lose to a Pyro is mind boggling.)

I wager that anyone that has ever complained about Pyro has never actually fought one in the real world or in a real teamfight. They've only fought them in arenas. This infuriates me.

If I put them at a level to where they are only "average" or "mediocre" at arenas, to appease the masses, what does that leave him with? Nothing. He will be a mediocre class with a mediocre role for mediocre people. It will go back to being an unplayed, unfun class that has no place on Herocraft.

This is why I do not wish to nerf them any further. If they are to be changed any more than they already have, it would mean they need a full rework, like I've done for most everything else. Not that I'm against doing that, it's just that there are a lot of classes that I believe fit this category, and I don't like the idea of throwing in another one just yet.


If People really wanna see Pyromancer lose a bit of it's edge in colosseums, you know what would do it? A new colosseum map that doesn't have a fucking bridge.

 

[LightningCape]

@Delfofthebla My opinions are NOT solely based on col and arena games. Evaluating a class like that is pretty dumb and I agree, infuriating. You cannot expect everyone on the server to know how to deal with pyromancer, kinda strange. I mean people who don't know how to use their class to the fullest.

I would not solo PvP as a Pyro.
I would not teamfight PvP as a Pyro.
I would not bring a Pyro to a PvP teamfight.
I would not bring a Pyro to a PvP Tournament.

So just don't play pyromancer is what you're saying?

I understand that there is a very large outcry of Pyromancer balance from the community, but I'll be honest, it makes me rage a bit when people do. Here's the thing with Pyro. It isn't that good. Pyromancer is a very weak class that has nothing more than damage going for it. He has no mobility, no "proper" kiting tools, and he has no melee abilities to compliment his supposed melee role.

This kinda goes with what my post is about. Pyromancer does a lot of damage and you're right that is the only thing going for it, but it doesn't have to be. It could be given more melee and utility at the cost of lowering its damage. The class itself could stand for some changes. This is not an arena or col thing but a balance thing. These reworks for other classes have only created good things imo and since nerfing pyromancer is "out of the quesion" then why not tweak it?

It's also not an issue of "oh you guys aren't trying". I've fought pyromancer in world PvP on rpg and on test with various classes (no warrior specs) and it's pretty tough. The damage on the axe alone makes fighting it as a caster spec a nightmare and don't even get me started on rogues. Most people cant be a maxed RB with a FA I sword and full enchanted armor. No offence or anything just putting that out there.

One class shouldn't be able to shut down most non-warrior specs because of a technicality. (dmg is the only thing it has)

All I'm saying is that although this class has 0 defence and only mini utility it stomps on quite a few classes do to shear damage which I find kinda silly. It's not even that hard of a class to play tbh. Yet it can almost one sidingly shut down classes that are hard to play/play well.

I do believe it needs a change. Just my opinion

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

(And STDs, you disappoint me here--you have Chakra for christs sakes. How you would ever lose to a Pyro is mind boggling.)

Man... and this is precisely why I think they're overpowered. Even though I have the ability to put the fire out every 8 seconds, I was still getting shit on......... By a level 28 Pyro no less. In fact, on 2 occasions, LightningCape (lvl 65 mystic) and I (lvl 65 disciple) got pooed on by this 28 Pyro and 65 Paladin. The Pally wasn't healing the Pyro. I was focusing the pyro the whole time, while getting healed the fuck up by a mystic, and me using chakra on cooldown, and it was still no contest... against, again, a 28 pyro...

Mind you, after I complained about it, you played this pyro in a duel and lost .5 hearts... So I guess I'm bad?

Either way, the real story here is that this new forum template licks nuts.

 

[Delfofthebla]

@Delfofthebla My opinions are NOT solely based on col and arena games. Evaluating a class like that is pretty dumb and I agree, infuriating. You cannot expect everyone on the server to know how to deal with pyromancer, kinda strange. I mean people who don't know how to use their class to the fullest.

So just don't play pyromancer is what you're saying?

This kinda goes with what my post is about. Pyromancer does a lot of damage and you're right that is the only thing going for it, but it doesn't have to be. It could be given more melee and utility at the cost of lowering its damage. The class itself could stand for some changes. This is not an arena or col thing but a balance thing. These reworks for other classes have only created good things imo and since nerfing pyromancer is "out of the quesion" then why not tweak it?

It's also not an issue of "oh you guys aren't trying". I've fought pyromancer in world PvP on rpg and on test with various classes (no warrior specs) and it's pretty tough. The damage on the axe alone makes fighting it as a caster spec a nightmare and don't even get me started on rogues. Most people cant be a maxed RB with a FA I sword and full enchanted armor. No offence or anything just putting that out there.

One class shouldn't be able to shut down most non-warrior specs because of a technicality. (dmg is the only thing it has)

All I'm saying is that although this class has 0 defence and only mini utility it stomps on quite a few classes do to shear damage which I find kinda silly. It's not even that hard of a class to play tbh. Yet it can almost one sidingly shut down classes that are hard to play/play well.

I do believe it needs a change. Just my opinion

I do agree that Pyromancer should be more than just damage, and I've attempted to go in that direction before. In the last patch, I started to give them a bit more mobility, lowered their damage, and was going to do other things on top of that, but I just wasn't in the mood to completely revamp the class, which is what it really needs if I am to make those kinds of changes. I pulled the changes, just did some other minor tweaks to them, and left it at that.

I've got a lot of shit on my plate atm. We're about to really start hammering down on the Adventure map stuff, and I will be heavily involved in that development. During this time, I will not be able to revamp classes like I have been doing over the past few months. On top of that, there are just plenty of other classes that I think need it (or I would prefer to do it to) more (All Warriors, Necromancer, Bard, Cleric (finalize the changes I was working on previously) and finally Pyromancer.)

As far as the Max RB with FA--I wasn't speaking entirely from a world pvp perspective. I can easily /col duel a Pyro as a RB, Ninja, Dragoon, Ranger, Paladin, BloodMage, Samurai, Disciple, or Bard and win without too much trouble. I'm less confident with a few of those due to me not having them on live, but for the most part, all of those classes have the ability to kill a Pyromancer. It's possible with others, such as Wizard, Mystic, Beguiler, or Dreadknight, but due to Kick or low mobility on the part of the class, it makes it harder for those classes to defeat one. It's still possible however. And it sure as hell is possible to defeat a 28 Pyromancer as ANY of the aforementioned classes.

Regardless, it would be considerably easier to fight a Pyro in world PvP as any class due to Fire Resist Potions completely countering about 50% of their kiting ability and damage.

You said that one class shouldn't be able to shut down most non-warrior specs because of a technicality, but it doesn't do this. It counters casters, and a couple healers. Rogues complete destroy a Pyro, and most of the warriors have the mobility / chasability necessary to pull the Pyro in and kill him.

So I guess I'm bad?

*nod*

 

[STDs4YouAnd4Me]

On a more positive note, rain will shut a pyro down pretty easily.

 

[LightningCape]

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I've got a lot of shit on my plate atm. We're about to really start hammering down on the Adventure map stuff, and I will be heavily involved in that development. During this time, I will not be able to revamp classes like I have been doing over the past few months. On top of that, there are just plenty of other classes that I think need it (or I would prefer to do it to) more (All Warriors, Necromancer, Bard, Cleric (finalize the changes I was working on previously) and finally Pyromancer.)

I understand you're busy. Thanks for taking the time to tell me how it is.