• Guest, we are doing a new map (refresh) for Herocraft. Gather your friends and get ready! Coming next Friday, 06/28/24 @ 7PM CT play.hc.to
    Read up on the guides and new systems! Here.
    View the LIVE Map here @ hc.to/map
    Stuck or have a problem? use "/pe create" to to open a ticket with staff (There are some known issues and other hotfixes we will be pushing asap)
  • Guest, Make sure to use our LAUNCHER! Read more here!

Suggestion Beguiler - High Dps Manna Pisser

JupiterRome

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Location
l
So I've played beguiler for maybe 1/4 of haven and a lot of bastion, and WIth Plague Bomb remove I like it even more but, chaotic Visions costs 150 mana (for example) I mean yeah Beguiler does do a lot of dps and is pretty op but it has horrible mana problems, so my suggestion is lower the damage a bit and lower mana costs, I havnt thought of a specific idea yet but, it seems like not many people realize how bad this class's mana issues are.
 

Aryios

Senior Architect
Architect
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
I have to agree with you, I had about 20 - 25 Wisdom and with Clarity I was always out of Mana. I also like Chaoticvisions and think it should replace Pulse and be given a warm up. Pulse and Chaoticvisions do almost the same amount of damage as well.
 

JupiterRome

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Location
l
I have to agree with you, I had about 20 - 25 Wisdom and with Clarity I was always out of Mana. I also like Chaoticvisions and think it should replace Pulse and be given a warm up. Pulse and Chaoticvisions do almost the same amount of damage as well.
Sorta gotta dis agree on warm up BUT I could DEFINATLY see Pulse taken out and replaced with Chaotic Visions, 27 wis clarity I still loose mana super fast

@Leo2596 thoughts?
 

mikehk

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Aug 17, 2012
Location
Idaho
not to draw it too far offtopic, but you ever played runeblade? you kill one person and you're OOM as well. I know their melee still is good, but it takes a good chunk of damage off when you're OOM.
 

JupiterRome

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Location
l
not to draw it too far offtopic, but you ever played runeblade? you kill one person and you're OOM as well. I know their melee still is good, but it takes a good chunk of damage off when you're OOM.
Yeah but as you pointed out, Runeblade has "good" melee, tbh their melee is amazing and blink flicker ice runes are a really nice escape, and rogues also mostly for 1v1s and are usually very good at it, where as beguiler dosnt have a very nice escape and is good for teamfights but as soon as it runs out of mana its pretty fucked.
 

Jasquan

Legacy Supporter 9
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Location
Denmark
I thought Beguiler was meant to be a control class? If it has horribly high DPS, it doesn't seem to fit its purpose very well.
 

Dsawemd

Wiki Team
Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Current implementation of beguiler still has too high damage for the resource costs to let you burst down more than one opponent without having to manage mana while kiting and using control skills.

Current beguiler is really strong in 1vX's inside arena. Try bursting any off-healer, then kite using control skills until mana is respectable again (with clarity this doesn't take too long) and engage the next target.
 

lordprettyflack0

Legacy Supporter 6
Joined
Nov 29, 2012
K

1. Bring back plague bomb
2. Replace pulse with chaotic visions, with warmup
3. Lower all mana cost for skills
 

LordZelkova

Ashen One...
Legacy Supporter 8
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
fwfw.PNG
So, ChaotiucVisions is a shorter stronger BoneSpear?
What's the CD and Cost of this?
 

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
The mana costs on Beguiler have always been higher than other classes due to it's insane AoE dps capabilities, and it's ability to control an entire fight from start to finish.

The thing with Beguiler is, that if you used all of your CC abilities correctly, you will miss ZERO skillshots, while also dicking your opponent around for an extensive amount of time. The Beguiler has complete control of his opponent from start to finish.

Now, what if the Beguiler doesnt use his DPS abilities? He could cycle through each CC skill and never stop. He could hold you for 5-10 mins if we go off of just cooldowns alone.

Except!

We can make him run out of mana long before this!

With his own mana regen buff and the addition of attributes, this is actually hard to make a reality, which is why his abilities have such high costs. Now, I think the CC portion of his skills have lower costs than his damaging abilities, so it's likely that you can still permalock someone for quite some time (I haven't tested it since attributes, so I don't know if it's true anymore)

But here's the gist: Since the Beguiler has such massive control over his opponents, it was desirable to punish him for failing to land his skillshots when he was basically handed a free hit for every Piggify/MassPigify he casted. If you are wasting skillshots, it will require more to kill your opponent, if you miss too many, you run out of mana before you get to do so.

That was the idea anyways. I don't know if it's currently too taxing or not, as I haven't tested any of it in months.
 

JupiterRome

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Location
l
The mana costs on Beguiler have always been higher than other classes due to it's insane AoE dps capabilities, and it's ability to control an entire fight from start to finish.

The thing with Beguiler is, that if you used all of your CC abilities correctly, you will miss ZERO skillshots, while also dicking your opponent around for an extensive amount of time. The Beguiler has complete control of his opponent from start to finish.

Now, what if the Beguiler doesnt use his DPS abilities? He could cycle through each CC skill and never stop. He could hold you for 5-10 mins if we go off of just cooldowns alone.

Except!

We can make him run out of mana long before this!

With his own mana regen buff and the addition of attributes, this is actually hard to make a reality, which is why his abilities have such high costs. Now, I think the CC portion of his skills have lower costs than his damaging abilities, so it's likely that you can still permalock someone for quite some time (I haven't tested it since attributes, so I don't know if it's true anymore)

But here's the gist: Since the Beguiler has such massive control over his opponents, it was desirable to punish him for failing to land his skillshots when he was basically handed a free hit for every Piggify/MassPigify he casted. If you are wasting skillshots, it will require more to kill your opponent, if you miss too many, you run out of mana before you get to do so.

That was the idea anyways. I don't know if it's currently too taxing or not, as I haven't tested any of it in months.
Mabye to punish them for missing skill shots instead give skill shots longers cds?
 

Delfofthebla

Legacy Supporter 4
Retired Staff
Joined
Nov 25, 2012
Location
United States
Mabye to punish them for missing skill shots instead give skill shots longers cds?
Mana is the resource that governs all of your actions. Longer CD's only punishes their damage output, and it does so even if they actually hit their target.

The idea is the more damage you are dealing, the less CC you are dishing out, and vise versa.
 

JupiterRome

Legacy Supporter 5
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Location
l
Mana is the resource that governs all of your actions. Longer CD's only punishes their damage output, and it does so even if they actually hit their target.

The idea is the more damage you are dealing, the less CC you are dishing out, and vise versa.
seems fair
 
Top