Bug A plethora of Disciple bugs

[Keache]

And before I begin; please see my post (http://herocraftonline.com/main/threads/disciple-balance.40098/) of Disciple's Skill, Balance. Currently that ability doesn't have the range it's supposed to... only has 5 block range, contrary to what the info says (20 blocks). It would be more balanced at 15 or 10 but let's fix stuff before we balance it.

Okay, so I took a bunch of videos of me using Forcepush and Ironfist on a dummy (Liqwids) in order to FINALLY pinpoint what the issue was with both of those skills... because often they seem to either have a random knockback effect or do nothing at all. I determined a couple of things: 1. Ironfist and Forcepush depend on how far away you are from the target effects how much the target is knocked back. The broken thing about this, however, is that the CLOSER someone is the more effective the knockback. 2. Ironfist and Forcepush is random as fuck and otherwise unreliable, something that makes Disciple severely broken. In a situation where I want someone to get off of me, that means that my abilities to knock them away are, effectively, useless. Here's some examples in video form because I like using fraps.

WARNING; quite a few videos, I'll put a TLDR on the bottom, but if you want a full grasp of the issue feel free to watch these short (10 sec max) videos.

Lets start with Ironfist

First test was at about one block away/on top of me:

Tried it again at about one block

Ironfist at about two blocks away:

Let's try that again:

Well, what if I'm running at you like I'm in combat?

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So, as you can see, Ironfist is acting very randomly... I can either expect him to fly away like he's supposed to, or maybe he won't budge at all. While distance seems to be a factor here, it's safe to say that this skill is not working as intended and is otherwise unwieldy in combat. It either saves my life or kills me.

So, let's try Forcepush at varying distances and see how it works

Nearly on top of me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udZEmYyGdSw


About Two Blocks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuiyFrPEmPM


About three blocks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjKk7nHikkI


Four Blocks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8gEFgBH3XE


Four Blocks again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hKqOmxPRlo

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So, as you can see, Forcepush is REALLY random. In none of these examples is it totally constant, as in I can either expect it to work exceptionally well or not at all, regardless of conditions (unless the target's in the air, but that's a different story).

TLDR:
As I said in the beginning, Forcepush and Ironfist are not acting in a predictable, consistent manner, and are either working as intended or not at all or somewhere in between. More often than not, they're not working at all. In a combat scenario, this randomness can be a life changer or a death knell for Disciples, and it is extremely infuriating to deal with. I would appreciate further feedback and findings on this, because at the moment I have no idea what is causing these issues.

P.S, Maybe if Forcepush was coded more similarly to Tremor would this fix the Forcepush issue? As it stands Tremor seems to work beautifully consistently.

 

[joshtsai]

Give this man a medal

 

[Kainzo]

Velocity based skills will always be affected by server TPS (at that exact moment) ....
Consider it a lore-based thing, force magic always have a chance to fail, the "chance" directly equates to server-lag.

In addition, these force-skills can be checked by NocheatPlus and if it decides it's "against" the rules, it'll stop it from happening.


Delfofthebla / gabizou can feel free to confirm or deny.

 

[Keache]

Velocity based skills will always be affected by server TPS (at that exact moment) ....
Consider it a lore-based thing, force magic always have a chance to fail, the "chance" directly equates to server-lag.

In addition, these force-skills can be checked by NocheatPlus and if it decides it's "against" the rules, it'll stop it from happening.


Delfofthebla / gabizou can feel free to confirm or deny.

That was all done within about 3 minutes. Unless the TPS was fluctuating greatly during that time, I would still appreciate some looking into this. Additionally, that doesn't explain why Tremor seems to work more reliably/often at any given time than Forcepush. ALTHOUGH I am basing this off of combat experience, not actually having tested tremor like I did forcepush. Once I find a dragoon I'll fraps that too and post it either here or in another post.

 

[Delfofthebla]

Velocity based skills will always be affected by server TPS (at that exact moment) ....
Consider it a lore-based thing, force magic always have a chance to fail, the "chance" directly equates to server-lag.

In addition, these force-skills can be checked by NocheatPlus and if it decides it's "against" the rules, it'll stop it from happening.


Delfofthebla / gabizou can feel free to confirm or deny.

I've definitely noticed that sometimes the skills just "don't work". I can only assume that this is due to the server TPS. Whether that is because it is "fluctuating" or simply because it is low, is beyond me. I just know it happens.

However, velocity based skills will be stopped by nocheat 50% of the time for no reason what so ever anyways. As far as I can tell, it does not matter what the TPS is, or how much it is fluctuating. The server could be running perfectly and you will still see velocity based skills being tampered with. Nocheat just doesn't like them.

So you're working against the server, and you're working against the anti-cheat plugin. The actual success rate of these abilities is well below 40%.

 

[Keache]

:[[DOUBLEPOST=1372036033,1372035962][/DOUBLEPOST]Wish there was some way to fix this stuff... damn you Nocheat, nobody loves you

 

[Keache]

What's the situation with Balance? Can we get that adjusted to 10-15 blocks or so? At the very least can we get the text on the ability changed to five instead of twenty so I can stop bugging you guys on the bug report forums about it not working :/

 

[Delfofthebla]

The skills already have absurd numbers on them to assist with them "not working all of the time". How much it is actually helping is beyond me. Increasing them any further will likely make it worse, not better.

As far as their descriptions go...meh, I'm too lazy.

 

[Kainzo]

The skills already have absurd numbers on them to assist with them "not working all of the time". How much it is actually helping is beyond me. Increasing them any further will likely make it worse, not better.

As far as their descriptions go...meh, I'm too lazy.

What absurd numbers?

 

[Delfofthebla]

What absurd numbers?

The force push / pull velocity numbers. If the server feels like letting them work to their fullest, forcepush will knock you about 15-20 blocks away. Forcepull will pull a target over your head and place them about 5-8 blocks behind you.

I personally find these values to be "absurd". However, you will only see these numbers happen once every 100 uses, so the reality is a bit different.

 

[Keache]

I was going to make a post on the suggestions forums about this, but I think I might as well argue my point here while you guys are paying attention to this.

Before I being, I am trying to be as very little biased as possible. If you see flaws in my logic and feel that I am being biased, please point that out. Otherwise, here I go.

I would very much appreciate it if Balance was buffed/fixed/changed etc. from 5 blocks to 10/15 (Would prefer 15. But yes, the current intention of 20 blocks is far too much). I've been trying to use balance constantly during fights and I find that more often than not it is unwieldy at a 5 block range. During a fight my allies are unable to quickly gather around me in a 5 block radius, because they are either running or being knocked around. Here's what happens when I try to balance (9/10): I either miss the important person who is very low and balance with someone who is already at max hp and standing beside me, burning the CD and rendering the ability useless, or I am unable to catch up to and balance my ally(ies) due to the incredibly short range and, of course, lag. In every situation, I can only hit 1 person because that's all the range permits. My point here is that 5 blocks is extremely short, even more so during a fight. I don't know how I can further elaborate on this, but I hope I made my point clear.

The force push / pull velocity numbers. If the server feels like letting them work to their fullest, forcepush will knock you about 15-20 blocks away. Forcepull will pull a target over your head and place them about 5-8 blocks behind you.

I personally find these values to be "absurd"

Disciples so desperately need Forcepush to work to its fullest (that being knocking someone about 15-20 blocks). This is because the fact that we have such low survivability is counterbalanced by that Forcepush. If a Disciple cannot Forcepush you or otherwise knock you away, he is as good as dead. The Disciple's health is low, its healing was indirectly nerfed as a result of the 33% self-healing reduction, and a silence or good interruption is often the death of many a Disciple. I'm not saying that the nerfs were not warranted; I think that Disciple is in a really balanced state as a result of those reductions, granted forcepush and its other "get off of me" abilities are functional. Without those, it is difficult to be combat effective in quite a few situations. It is that pivotal.

Thanks for bearing with another wall of text from me, feel free to pick this apart or otherwise throw any questions my way.

 

[joshtsai]

Again, I agree with this man.